[cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws [Was: "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3"]

Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) dzacharo at harica.gr
Wed Apr 29 18:56:26 UTC 2020


I forgot to mention that the Google Document is not currently synced 
with the GitHub draft.

If you want to take a look at the current draft of version 2.3, check out

https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/blob/update-bylaws-to-v2.3/docs/Bylaws.md

As promised, I will provide a docx and a PDF redline when the ballot starts.


Dimitris.

On 2020-04-29 9:50 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I accepted most of 
> them.
>
> You can see the full list of changes in 
> https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2
>
> Unfortunately I couldn't get these changes earlier to meet the 
> expected timeline but we're here now. I'm still looking for one more 
> endorser to get the ballot started.
>
>
> Thank you,
> Dimitris.
>
> On 2020-04-22 10:13 μ.μ., Tim Hollebeek wrote:
>>
>> Dimitris,
>>
>> I made some comments in github about a few minor issues that I think 
>> it would be useful to resolve, but this draft is close enough to the 
>> desired final state that I’d feel comfortable endorsing it, if that 
>> removes a roadblock to it moving forward.
>>
>> -Tim
>>
>> *From:* Public <public-bounces at cabforum.org> *On Behalf Of *Dimitris 
>> Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 AM
>> *To:* CABforum1 <public at cabforum.org>
>> *Subject:* [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws [Was: 
>> "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3"]
>>
>>
>> We made some progress and we're getting closer to starting the 
>> discussion period for this ballot. We're "almost" there :)
>>
>> I have created a pull request 
>> https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2 that contains all the 
>> changes we discussed in past meetings. We have two (final?) issues to 
>> address before proceeding:
>>
>>  1. Ryan suggested that we replace the term "Full Member" (new term I
>>     proposed) with "Voting Member". I support this change which makes
>>     things clearer to the readers. "Members" would be the total of
>>     "Voting Members, Associate Members and Interested Parties".
>>  2. We added the term "Voting Representative". My suggestion was to
>>     leave "the *process *to designate Voting Representatives for
>>     voting members" to the individual Chartered Working Group
>>     charters to address. Google strongly feels the assignment process
>>     should be addressed and described in the Bylaws and be
>>     Forum-level consistent. I don't have strong feelings about this
>>     and would be happy to make this process Forum-wide.
>>
>> I would like to hear any feedback with objections or concerns 
>> regarding these two changes. Unless I hear otherwise, I will proceed 
>> with these updates on Friday April 24. Hopefully, if I get a second 
>> endorser we can start the discussion period on April 27. As promised, 
>> the discussion will remain open for at least 14 days before 
>> considering voting to begin.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Dimitris.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-02-29 12:07 π.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public 
>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 2020-02-28 5:29 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Dimitris,
>>
>>         There's a lot of changes here, and this will take us quite a
>>         bit of time to digest.
>>
>>         I don't know that we're necessarily supportive of the "Full
>>         Member" definition, and the implications that has. The
>>         implicit consequences of treating Interested Parties as
>>         Members of the Forum is not what was intended with the
>>         current Bylaws, as I understand it, and so it has
>>         ramifications throughout. That is, our definitions have
>>         historically been "Member, Associate Member, Interested
>>         Party" - with zero overlap. This seems to redefine things to
>>         be "Full Member, Associate Member, Interested Party", with
>>         using "Member" as the aggregate term for all three, and it's
>>         unclear why that was necessary.
>>
>>
>>     The concern that was documented in the Bylaws issues was that it
>>     becomes confusing when we use plural (i.e. Forum Members, WG
>>     Members). Does that include "all Members"? Does it include only
>>     "Members" (with a capital "M")? Does it include every Forum
>>     member? That's mainly the problem I tried to solve by adding the
>>     "Full Member" definition. However, if we can find an alternative
>>     approach to achieve the same goal, I would support it.
>>
>>
>>         However, the biggest concern remains with the approach to the
>>         Chair / Vice Chair making changes to "Informative" sections.
>>         We're tremendously appreciative of your efforts here in
>>         finding a solution, and we're trying to work through how best
>>         to propose changes that capture the intent. We're very
>>         appreciative of the explicit attempt to limit the scope in
>>         sucha manner.
>>
>>
>>     Thank you for that, all I did was include some language that was
>>     proposed in previous meeting. I hope it will only require a few
>>     more tweaks to become acceptable by Google.
>>
>>     Dimitris.
>>
>>
>>         On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15 AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos
>>         (HARICA) via Public <public at cabforum.org
>>         <mailto:public at cabforum.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>             I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point 7 also
>>             needs to precede all occurrences of "Member" with "Full",
>>             as Interested Parties are sometimes able to participate
>>             in Forum Teleconferences, etc, and so may affect the
>>             quorum without a corresponding ability to vote.
>>
>>             So, I updated this paragraph to:
>>
>>             "7.    A ballot result will be considered valid only when
>>             more than half of the number of currently active Full
>>             Members has participated. The number of currently active
>>             Full Members is the average number of Full Member
>>             organizations that have participated in the previous
>>             three (3) Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences."
>>
>>             There is no need to circulate a new version yet. I'll
>>             wait for more feedback.
>>
>>
>>             Thanks,
>>             Dimitris.
>>
>>             On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
>>             via Public wrote:
>>
>>                 Following up from the latest F2F meeting, I have
>>                 prepared a ballot for a Bylaws update.
>>
>>                 I am looking for two endorsers.
>>
>>                 Thanks,
>>                 Dimitris.
>>
>>
>>                 *Purpose of Ballot:* The Forum has identified and
>>                 discussed a number of improvements to be made to the
>>                 current version of the Bylaws to improve clarity and
>>                 allow the Forum to function more effectively. Most of
>>                 these changes are described in the “Issues with
>>                 Bylaws to be addressed
>>                 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EtrIy3F5cPge0_M-C8J6fe72KcVI8H5Q_2S6S31ynU0>”
>>                 document.
>>
>>                 Here is a list of major changes:
>>
>>                  1. Clarification of the use of the term “Member” so
>>                     it is clear when we discuss about all Forum
>>                     Members (which includes Associate Members and
>>                     Interested Parties), and when we discuss about
>>                     the “Full Members”.
>>                  2. Adding the term “Voting Representative” which is
>>                     designated by each Member. Only votes submitted
>>                     by Voting Representatives will be considered
>>                  3. Replacing of the term “Forum wiki” with the
>>                     properly defined term “Member Web Site”
>>                  4. Removing references for Webmaster in the
>>                     definition of “Public Web Site” since it is
>>                     repeated in section 5.2
>>                  5. New Photography Policy in Exhibit D
>>                  6. Clarification of 4.1 (2) that Forum Members
>>                     nominate representatives
>>                  7. Allowing informative changes to Guidelines by the
>>                     Chair or Vice Chair
>>                  8. In 5.3.1 require that a Certificate Issuer is
>>                     trusted in the “latest” software produced by a
>>                     Certificate Consumer
>>
>>                 *— MOTION BEGINS –*
>>
>>                 *Amendment to the Bylaws:* Replace the entire text of
>>                 the Bylaws of the CA/Browser Forum with the attached
>>                 version (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).
>>
>>                 *
>>                 — MOTION ENDS –*
>>
>>                 A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws
>>                 draft v2.3 redline.pdf).
>>
>>                 The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:
>>
>>                 Formal discussion period:  (14+ days)
>>
>>                 Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>>
>>                 Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>>
>>                 Vote for approval (7 days)
>>
>>                 Ballot Vote Begins: TBD
>>
>>                 Ballot Vote Ends: TBD
>>
>>
>>
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