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I forgot to mention that the Google Document is not currently synced
with the GitHub draft.<br>
<br>
If you want to take a look at the current draft of version 2.3,
check out <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/blob/update-bylaws-to-v2.3/docs/Bylaws.md">https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/blob/update-bylaws-to-v2.3/docs/Bylaws.md</a><br>
<br>
As promised, I will provide a docx and a PDF redline when the ballot
starts.<br>
<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-29 9:50 μ.μ., Dimitris
Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8e8e1f8a-4b1e-1f4b-0287-67b9a4550e65@harica.gr">
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Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I accepted most
of them. <br>
<br>
You can see the full list of changes in <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2</a><br>
<br>
Unfortunately I couldn't get these changes earlier to meet the
expected timeline but we're here now. I'm still looking for one
more endorser to get the ballot started.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-22 10:13 μ.μ., Tim
Hollebeek wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I made some comments in github about a
few minor issues that I think it would be useful to resolve,
but this draft is close enough to the desired final state
that I’d feel comfortable endorsing it, if that removes a
roadblock to it moving forward.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Public <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CABforum1 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B
Forum Bylaws [Was: "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum
Bylaws to version 2.3"]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
We made some progress and we're getting closer to starting
the discussion period for this ballot. We're "almost"
there :)<br>
<br>
I have created a pull request <a
href="https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2</a>
that contains all the changes we discussed in past
meetings. We have two (final?) issues to address before
proceeding:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">Ryan suggested that we replace the term
"Full Member" (new term I proposed) with "Voting
Member". I support this change which makes things
clearer to the readers. "Members" would be the total of
"Voting Members, Associate Members and Interested
Parties".<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">We added the term "Voting Representative".
My suggestion was to leave "the <b>process </b>to
designate Voting Representatives for voting members" to
the individual Chartered Working Group charters to
address. Google strongly feels the assignment process
should be addressed and described in the Bylaws and be
Forum-level consistent. I don't have strong feelings
about this and would be happy to make this process
Forum-wide.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>I would like to hear any feedback with objections or
concerns regarding these two changes. Unless I hear
otherwise, I will proceed with these updates on Friday
April 24. Hopefully, if I get a second endorser we can
start the discussion period on April 27. As promised, the
discussion will remain open for at least 14 days before
considering voting to begin.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-29 12:07 π.μ., Dimitris
Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-28 5:29 μ.μ., Ryan
Sleevi wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There's a lot of changes here,
and this will take us quite a bit of time to
digest.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't know that we're
necessarily supportive of the "Full Member"
definition, and the implications that has. The
implicit consequences of treating Interested
Parties as Members of the Forum is not what was
intended with the current Bylaws, as I understand
it, and so it has ramifications throughout. That
is, our definitions have historically been
"Member, Associate Member, Interested Party" -
with zero overlap. This seems to redefine things
to be "Full Member, Associate Member, Interested
Party", with using "Member" as the aggregate term
for all three, and it's unclear why that was
necessary.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
The concern that was documented in the Bylaws issues was
that it becomes confusing when we use plural (i.e. Forum
Members, WG Members). Does that include "all Members"?
Does it include only "Members" (with a capital "M")?
Does it include every Forum member? That's mainly the
problem I tried to solve by adding the "Full Member"
definition. However, if we can find an alternative
approach to achieve the same goal, I would support it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, the biggest concern
remains with the approach to the Chair / Vice
Chair making changes to "Informative" sections.
We're tremendously appreciative of your efforts
here in finding a solution, and we're trying to
work through how best to propose changes that
capture the intent. We're very appreciative of the
explicit attempt to limit the scope in sucha
manner.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Thank you for that, all I did was include some language
that was proposed in previous meeting. I hope it will
only require a few more tweaks to become acceptable by
Google.<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15
AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public
<<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
I just received a comment that Section 2.3
point 7 also needs to precede all occurrences
of "Member" with "Full", as Interested Parties
are sometimes able to participate in Forum
Teleconferences, etc, and so may affect the
quorum without a corresponding ability to
vote.<br>
<br>
So, I updated this paragraph to:<br>
<br>
"7. A ballot result will be considered
valid only when more than half of the number
of currently active <span style="color:red">Full
</span>Members has participated. The number of
currently active Full Members is the average
number of <span style="color:red">Full </span>Member
organizations that have participated in the
previous three (3) Forum Meetings and Forum
Teleconferences."<br>
<br>
There is no need to circulate a new version
yet. I'll wait for more feedback.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ.,
Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Following up from the
latest F2F meeting, I have prepared a ballot
for a Bylaws update. <br>
<br>
I am looking for two endorsers.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Purpose of Ballot:</b> The Forum has
identified and discussed a number of
improvements to be made to the current
version of the Bylaws to improve clarity and
allow the Forum to function more
effectively. Most of these changes are
described in the “I<a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EtrIy3F5cPge0_M-C8J6fe72KcVI8H5Q_2S6S31ynU0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ssues
with Bylaws to be addressed</a>” document.<br>
<br>
Here is a list of major changes:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Clarification of the use of
the term “Member” so it is clear when we
discuss about all Forum Members (which
includes Associate Members and Interested
Parties), and when we discuss about the
“Full Members”. <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Adding the term “Voting
Representative” which is designated by
each Member. Only votes submitted by
Voting Representatives will be considered<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Replacing of the term “Forum
wiki” with the properly defined term
“Member Web Site”<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Removing references for
Webmaster in the definition of “Public Web
Site” since it is repeated in section 5.2<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">New Photography Policy in
Exhibit D<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Clarification of 4.1 (2) that
Forum Members nominate representatives<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Allowing informative changes
to Guidelines by the Chair or Vice Chair<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">In 5.3.1 require that a
Certificate Issuer is trusted in the
“latest” software produced by a
Certificate Consumer<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>— MOTION
BEGINS –</b><br>
<br>
<b>Amendment to the Bylaws:</b> Replace the
entire text of the Bylaws of the CA/Browser
Forum with the attached version (CA-Browser
Forum Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).<br>
<br>
<b><br>
— MOTION ENDS –</b><br>
<br>
A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser
Forum Bylaws draft v2.3 redline.pdf).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The procedure for approval of this ballot
is as follows:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Formal discussion period: (14+ days)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020
19:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020
19:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>Vote for approval (7 days)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Vote Begins: TBD<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Vote Ends: TBD<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Public mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org">Public@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a>
</pre>
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