[cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws [Was: "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3"]

Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) dzacharo at harica.gr
Wed Apr 29 18:50:23 UTC 2020

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I accepted most of them.

You can see the full list of changes in 

Unfortunately I couldn't get these changes earlier to meet the expected 
timeline but we're here now. I'm still looking for one more endorser to 
get the ballot started.

Thank you,

On 2020-04-22 10:13 μ.μ., Tim Hollebeek wrote:
> Dimitris,
> I made some comments in github about a few minor issues that I think 
> it would be useful to resolve, but this draft is close enough to the 
> desired final state that I’d feel comfortable endorsing it, if that 
> removes a roadblock to it moving forward.
> -Tim
> *From:* Public <public-bounces at cabforum.org> *On Behalf Of *Dimitris 
> Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 AM
> *To:* CABforum1 <public at cabforum.org>
> *Subject:* [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws [Was: 
> "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3"]
> We made some progress and we're getting closer to starting the 
> discussion period for this ballot. We're "almost" there :)
> I have created a pull request 
> https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2 that contains all the 
> changes we discussed in past meetings. We have two (final?) issues to 
> address before proceeding:
>  1. Ryan suggested that we replace the term "Full Member" (new term I
>     proposed) with "Voting Member". I support this change which makes
>     things clearer to the readers. "Members" would be the total of
>     "Voting Members, Associate Members and Interested Parties".
>  2. We added the term "Voting Representative". My suggestion was to
>     leave "the *process *to designate Voting Representatives for
>     voting members" to the individual Chartered Working Group charters
>     to address. Google strongly feels the assignment process should be
>     addressed and described in the Bylaws and be Forum-level
>     consistent. I don't have strong feelings about this and would be
>     happy to make this process Forum-wide.
> I would like to hear any feedback with objections or concerns 
> regarding these two changes. Unless I hear otherwise, I will proceed 
> with these updates on Friday April 24. Hopefully, if I get a second 
> endorser we can start the discussion period on April 27. As promised, 
> the discussion will remain open for at least 14 days before 
> considering voting to begin.
> Thank you,
> Dimitris.
> On 2020-02-29 12:07 π.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public 
> wrote:
>     On 2020-02-28 5:29 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi wrote:
>         Hi Dimitris,
>         There's a lot of changes here, and this will take us quite a
>         bit of time to digest.
>         I don't know that we're necessarily supportive of the "Full
>         Member" definition, and the implications that has. The
>         implicit consequences of treating Interested Parties as
>         Members of the Forum is not what was intended with the current
>         Bylaws, as I understand it, and so it has ramifications
>         throughout. That is, our definitions have historically been
>         "Member, Associate Member, Interested Party" - with zero
>         overlap. This seems to redefine things to be "Full Member,
>         Associate Member, Interested Party", with using "Member" as
>         the aggregate term for all three, and it's unclear why that
>         was necessary.
>     The concern that was documented in the Bylaws issues was that it
>     becomes confusing when we use plural (i.e. Forum Members, WG
>     Members). Does that include "all Members"? Does it include only
>     "Members" (with a capital "M")? Does it include every Forum
>     member? That's mainly the problem I tried to solve by adding the
>     "Full Member" definition. However, if we can find an alternative
>     approach to achieve the same goal, I would support it.
>         However, the biggest concern remains with the approach to the
>         Chair / Vice Chair making changes to "Informative" sections.
>         We're tremendously appreciative of your efforts here in
>         finding a solution, and we're trying to work through how best
>         to propose changes that capture the intent. We're very
>         appreciative of the explicit attempt to limit the scope in
>         sucha manner.
>     Thank you for that, all I did was include some language that was
>     proposed in previous meeting. I hope it will only require a few
>     more tweaks to become acceptable by Google.
>     Dimitris.
>         On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15 AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos
>         (HARICA) via Public <public at cabforum.org
>         <mailto:public at cabforum.org>> wrote:
>             I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point 7 also
>             needs to precede all occurrences of "Member" with "Full",
>             as Interested Parties are sometimes able to participate in
>             Forum Teleconferences, etc, and so may affect the quorum
>             without a corresponding ability to vote.
>             So, I updated this paragraph to:
>             "7.    A ballot result will be considered valid only when
>             more than half of the number of currently active Full
>             Members has participated. The number of currently active
>             Full Members is the average number of Full Member
>             organizations that have participated in the previous three
>             (3) Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences."
>             There is no need to circulate a new version yet. I'll wait
>             for more feedback.
>             Thanks,
>             Dimitris.
>             On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
>             via Public wrote:
>                 Following up from the latest F2F meeting, I have
>                 prepared a ballot for a Bylaws update.
>                 I am looking for two endorsers.
>                 Thanks,
>                 Dimitris.
>                 *Purpose of Ballot:* The Forum has identified and
>                 discussed a number of improvements to be made to the
>                 current version of the Bylaws to improve clarity and
>                 allow the Forum to function more effectively. Most of
>                 these changes are described in the “Issues with Bylaws
>                 to be addressed
>                 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EtrIy3F5cPge0_M-C8J6fe72KcVI8H5Q_2S6S31ynU0>”
>                 document.
>                 Here is a list of major changes:
>                  1. Clarification of the use of the term “Member” so
>                     it is clear when we discuss about all Forum
>                     Members (which includes Associate Members and
>                     Interested Parties), and when we discuss about the
>                     “Full Members”.
>                  2. Adding the term “Voting Representative” which is
>                     designated by each Member. Only votes submitted by
>                     Voting Representatives will be considered
>                  3. Replacing of the term “Forum wiki” with the
>                     properly defined term “Member Web Site”
>                  4. Removing references for Webmaster in the
>                     definition of “Public Web Site” since it is
>                     repeated in section 5.2
>                  5. New Photography Policy in Exhibit D
>                  6. Clarification of 4.1 (2) that Forum Members
>                     nominate representatives
>                  7. Allowing informative changes to Guidelines by the
>                     Chair or Vice Chair
>                  8. In 5.3.1 require that a Certificate Issuer is
>                     trusted in the “latest” software produced by a
>                     Certificate Consumer
>                 *— MOTION BEGINS –*
>                 *Amendment to the Bylaws:* Replace the entire text of
>                 the Bylaws of the CA/Browser Forum with the attached
>                 version (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).
>                 *
>                 — MOTION ENDS –*
>                 A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws
>                 draft v2.3 redline.pdf).
>                 The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:
>                 Formal discussion period:  (14+ days)
>                 Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>                 Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>                 Vote for approval (7 days)
>                 Ballot Vote Begins: TBD
>                 Ballot Vote Ends: TBD
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