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Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I accepted most of
them. <br>
<br>
You can see the full list of changes in
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2">https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2</a><br>
<br>
Unfortunately I couldn't get these changes earlier to meet the
expected timeline but we're here now. I'm still looking for one more
endorser to get the ballot started.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-22 10:13 μ.μ., Tim Hollebeek
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I made some comments in github about a few
minor issues that I think it would be useful to resolve, but
this draft is close enough to the desired final state that I’d
feel comfortable endorsing it, if that removes a roadblock to
it moving forward.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Public
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"><public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dimitris
Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CABforum1 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-12: Update CA/B
Forum Bylaws [Was: "Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum
Bylaws to version 2.3"]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
We made some progress and we're getting closer to starting
the discussion period for this ballot. We're "almost" there
:)<br>
<br>
I have created a pull request <a
href="https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/dzacharo/documents/pull/2</a>
that contains all the changes we discussed in past meetings.
We have two (final?) issues to address before proceeding:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">Ryan suggested that we replace the term "Full
Member" (new term I proposed) with "Voting Member". I
support this change which makes things clearer to the
readers. "Members" would be the total of "Voting Members,
Associate Members and Interested Parties".<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">We added the term "Voting Representative". My
suggestion was to leave "the <b>process </b>to designate
Voting Representatives for voting members" to the
individual Chartered Working Group charters to address.
Google strongly feels the assignment process should be
addressed and described in the Bylaws and be Forum-level
consistent. I don't have strong feelings about this and
would be happy to make this process Forum-wide.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>I would like to hear any feedback with objections or
concerns regarding these two changes. Unless I hear
otherwise, I will proceed with these updates on Friday April
24. Hopefully, if I get a second endorser we can start the
discussion period on April 27. As promised, the discussion
will remain open for at least 14 days before considering
voting to begin.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-29 12:07 π.μ., Dimitris
Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-28 5:29 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There's a lot of changes here,
and this will take us quite a bit of time to digest.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't know that we're
necessarily supportive of the "Full Member"
definition, and the implications that has. The
implicit consequences of treating Interested Parties
as Members of the Forum is not what was intended
with the current Bylaws, as I understand it, and so
it has ramifications throughout. That is, our
definitions have historically been "Member,
Associate Member, Interested Party" - with zero
overlap. This seems to redefine things to be "Full
Member, Associate Member, Interested Party", with
using "Member" as the aggregate term for all three,
and it's unclear why that was necessary.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
The concern that was documented in the Bylaws issues was
that it becomes confusing when we use plural (i.e. Forum
Members, WG Members). Does that include "all Members"?
Does it include only "Members" (with a capital "M")? Does
it include every Forum member? That's mainly the problem I
tried to solve by adding the "Full Member" definition.
However, if we can find an alternative approach to achieve
the same goal, I would support it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, the biggest concern
remains with the approach to the Chair / Vice Chair
making changes to "Informative" sections. We're
tremendously appreciative of your efforts here in
finding a solution, and we're trying to work through
how best to propose changes that capture the intent.
We're very appreciative of the explicit attempt to
limit the scope in sucha manner.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Thank you for that, all I did was include some language
that was proposed in previous meeting. I hope it will only
require a few more tweaks to become acceptable by Google.<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15 AM
Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public <<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point
7 also needs to precede all occurrences of
"Member" with "Full", as Interested Parties are
sometimes able to participate in Forum
Teleconferences, etc, and so may affect the
quorum without a corresponding ability to vote.<br>
<br>
So, I updated this paragraph to:<br>
<br>
"7. A ballot result will be considered valid
only when more than half of the number of
currently active <span style="color:red">Full </span>Members
has participated. The number of currently active
Full Members is the average number of <span
style="color:red">Full </span>Member
organizations that have participated in the
previous three (3) Forum Meetings and Forum
Teleconferences."<br>
<br>
There is no need to circulate a new version yet.
I'll wait for more feedback.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ.,
Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Following up from the
latest F2F meeting, I have prepared a ballot
for a Bylaws update. <br>
<br>
I am looking for two endorsers.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Purpose of Ballot:</b> The Forum has
identified and discussed a number of
improvements to be made to the current version
of the Bylaws to improve clarity and allow the
Forum to function more effectively. Most of
these changes are described in the “I<a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EtrIy3F5cPge0_M-C8J6fe72KcVI8H5Q_2S6S31ynU0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ssues
with Bylaws to be addressed</a>” document.<br>
<br>
Here is a list of major changes:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Clarification of the use of the
term “Member” so it is clear when we discuss
about all Forum Members (which includes
Associate Members and Interested Parties),
and when we discuss about the “Full
Members”. <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Adding the term “Voting
Representative” which is designated by each
Member. Only votes submitted by Voting
Representatives will be considered<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Replacing of the term “Forum
wiki” with the properly defined term “Member
Web Site”<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Removing references for
Webmaster in the definition of “Public Web
Site” since it is repeated in section 5.2<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">New Photography Policy in
Exhibit D<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Clarification of 4.1 (2) that
Forum Members nominate representatives<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">Allowing informative changes to
Guidelines by the Chair or Vice Chair<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">In 5.3.1 require that a
Certificate Issuer is trusted in the
“latest” software produced by a Certificate
Consumer<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>— MOTION
BEGINS –</b><br>
<br>
<b>Amendment to the Bylaws:</b> Replace the
entire text of the Bylaws of the CA/Browser
Forum with the attached version (CA-Browser
Forum Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).<br>
<br>
<b><br>
— MOTION ENDS –</b><br>
<br>
A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum
Bylaws draft v2.3 redline.pdf).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The procedure for approval of this ballot is
as follows:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Formal discussion period: (14+ days)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020
19:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00
UTC<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>Vote for approval (7 days)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Vote Begins: TBD<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ballot Vote Ends: TBD<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Public mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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