[cabfpub] Final Minutes for CA/Browser Forum Teleconference - February 7, 2019

Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) dzacharo at harica.gr
Sun Feb 24 07:31:29 UTC 2019

These are the final Minutes of the Teleconference described in the 
subject of this message.

    Attendees (in alphabetical order)

Arno Fiedler (D-TRUST), Bruce Morton (Entrust Datacard), Daymion 
Reynolds (GoDaddy), Dean Coclin (Digicert), Dimitris Zacharopoulos 
(HARICA), Doug Beattie (GlobalSign), Enrico Entschew (D-TRUST), Fotis 
Loukos (SSL.com), Frank Corday (SecureTrust), Geoff Keating (Apple), 
Gordon Bock (Microsoft), Inaba Atsushi (GlobalSign), Jeff Ward (CPA 
Canada/WebTrust), Joanna Fox (GoDaddy), Jos Purvis (Cisco Systems), 
Kenneth Myers (US Federal PKI Management Authority), Kirk Hall (Entrust 
Datacard), Leo Grove (SSL.com), Li-Chun Chen (Chunghwa Telecom), Mads 
Henriksveen (Buypass AS), Mahmud Khair (SecureTrust), Marcelo Silva 
(Visa), Michelle Coon (OATI), Mike Reilly (Microsoft), Neil Dunbar 
(TrustCor Systems), Peter Miskovic (Disig), Rich Smith (Sectigo), Robin 
Alden (Sectigo), Ryan Sleevi (Google), Scott Rea (Dark Matter), Sissel 
Hoel (Buypass AS), Tim Hollebeek (Digicert), Tim Shirley (SecureTrust), 
Trevoli Ponds-White (Amazon), Wayne Thayer (Mozilla), Wendy Brown (US 
Federal PKI Management Authority).


      1. Roll Call

The Chair took attendance

      2. Read Antitrust Statement

The Antitrust Statement was read

      3. Review Agenda

Today's Agenda was approved.

      4. Approval of Minutes of previous teleconference

The minutes of January 24, 2019 teleconference were approved and will be 
posted to the Public list and the Public web site.

      5. Forum Infrastructure Working Group update

Jos reported that we now have a test wiki instance that can replace the 
current wiki. It is being reviewed with positive feedback so far, and we 
can import existing wiki code and pages fairly easily.

They had a good discussion about website management and how to migrate 
the current public web site over to the "managed" wordpress 
installation. They expect some small issues during the transition that 
can be resolved by using redirects to keep the current wiki URL 
operational until we move it to its new site.

They are still working on hosting the remaining services, namely the 
mailers and the wiki.

Document management was also discussed. There are published instructions 
on the wiki for how to prepare a red-lined draft maintenance guideline 
to be used for ballots. Wayne is also working on a GitHub maintenance 
documentation for people maintaining the CA/B Forum repositories.

      6. Follow-up on new WG Charters (Code Signing, S/MIME)

There is some discussion about the S/MIME WG Charter on the CA/B Forum 
public list.

      7. Upcoming F2F 46 meeting March 12-14, 2019 (hosted by Apple)

Hotel information is on the wiki. Geoff mentioned that Apple received 
some feedback that the suggested hotel was full, so it is possible that 
people booking at that hotel might not get the discounted price for all 
days. Any other hotel in that area would be convenient.

      8. Any Other Business


      9. Bylaws and existing Charters update

Wayne lead the discussion and continued from where we left off during 
the last call. He recalled having consensus on allowing the formation of 
Subcommittees at the Forum level and we are close on fixing the language 
to accomplish that.

Section 2.1 and membership criteria was also discussed on the public 
list related to period-of-time and particular audit periods. There 
didn't seem to be consensus for requiring an audit for membership 
criteria and Wayne suggested we put this question on hold temporarily.

There was discussion about whether joining the Forum level would require 
anything other than being a Member of a Chartered Working Group. That 
would mean that a Working Group Member would automatically be considered 
a Forum level Member. There was general agreement that nothing else 
should be required, new Applicant's wouldn't need to have two 
applications, one for a Chartered Working Group and one for the Forum, 
submitting the same membership information requirements twice. So, the 
proposal was to move Membership criteria out of the Bylaws and into the 
Working Group Charters. If we move to this direction, the Bylaws changes 
would have to be voted in the same ballot as a Server Certificate 
Working Group charter update.

Ryan mentioned that there might be Working Groups potentially huge 
because they have a broader topic and some Forum Members would like to 
use the Membership criteria to restrict that, however there might be 
alternatives to accomplish this goal if it becomes a problem.

Tim H. raised some concerns that membership criteria should be described 
in the Bylaws and Wayne recommended that these membership criteria can 
be included in the Bylaws in the template charter section as a guidance. 
Tim and Ryan agreed with this recommendation.

Wayne noticed that by resolving this matter, we also resolve the issue 
of section 2.1 because it makes this section much simpler. However, this 
would then be a concern for the Server Certificate Working Group charter 
to clarify.

Section 2.2 was discussed about ending membership and Wayne noticed that 
this should also be simplified down to "not being a member of a Working 
Group". Dimitris recommended we follow the same approach used for 
Membership criteria, also for ending Membership which means that each 
Working Group Charter (and Working Group Charter template) should 
include language for Membership termination.

Wayne described the remaining changes as relatively straightforward and 
uncontroversial, mostly being language cleanups and problems that were 
previously discovered.

Section 2.3d clarifies where each voting takes place.

Sections 2.3 and 2.4 on ballot language were updated with no material 

Section 5 is currently a source of confusion because it is titled "Forum 
activities" but some of those activities are performed at the Working 
Group level. So, sections 5.1 and 5.2 apply to the Forum.

Section 5.3.4 was about Legacy Working Groups during the transition 
period and can safely be removed. Section 5.3 applies to Working Groups.

Section 5.3.1 now describes elections for Working Groups which is 
missing from the current version.

Ryan asked about the percentage of completion for the preparation of 
these changes because changes to Bylaws include reviews by legal 
counsels. Wayne had a similar question about whether it would be 
preferred if these changes were introduced in smaller ballots or one big 
ballot and leans towards the latter because legal departments need to be 
involved, so it's better if these are presented all at once. There was 
general agreement on this issue, so we will attempt one large ballot to 
include all Bylaws and Server Certificate Working Group Charter updates.

Wayne described a plan on how to move forward by members adding all the 
proposed changes in the google document, including updates to the Server 
Certificate Working Group. Once we have that ready, Wayne will send it 
to the public list for another round of review. At that point, if we 
don't have any more feedback, he thinks it would be reasonable to assume 
that this is what the Forum wants to proceed with. We could have a 
60-day pre-ballot period with these changes so Members can review with 
their legal counsels before voting. No objections were raised by members.

Kirk asked if these amendments should be done before creating new 
Working Groups and Wayne replied that the proposed changes are not 
preventing new Working Groups to be created, as described under the 
current Bylaws.

      10. Next call

February 21, 2019 at 11:00 am Eastern Time.


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