[Infrastructure] Wiki and Markdown

Ryan Sleevi sleevi at google.com
Tue Jun 18 08:01:44 MST 2019

Yeah. I tried to spend more time today looking into it.

The CKEditor remains the default view, and it looks like there's a
configuration setting -
https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:ckgedit:configuration - needed to allow
users to set a personal default when editing pages.

In the "current" (I guess now fixed?) flow, I would need to click DWEdit to
get the old text-based edit, and the default was CKEdit. Going to DWEdit
certainly makes it MUCH better, but...

When switching between CKEdit and DWEdit to try and correct things, it
resolved the issues with list indentation complexity (it goes back to
editing # of spaces, rather than munging ULs/LIs), but it was clear that
when someone "paste from word" into the document, it preserves all of the
font settings on that, and adds a series of dokuwiki font tags for each
paragraph as they're edited (which then CKEdit translates into the nested
spans to set font).

I cleaned up the minutes using DWEdit to edit the markdown, and removed the
extraneous font tags. Removing those also caused CKEdit to resolve and no
longer show the spans.

In looking at the past revisions through DWEdit's lens, it's clear that the
CKEdit flow definitely made it harder to ensure things like header ordering
was correct (I've since corrected it, so we can have a TOC that matches the
agenda), but I'm sure for members, it was easier to use.

Knowing the flow allows for switching between things, I think some of the
open questions:
1) Do we want to allow CKEdit in addition to DWEdit?
2) Do we want to configure it to allow users to set their defaults?
3) Should we configure defaults one way or the other for users (i.e. should
you start with DWEdit vs CKEdit?)
4) Do we want to clean up CKEdit-provided changes using DWEdit-tools?
  a) By CWG/Subcommittee?
  b) Only for minutes (i.e. things we'll take from Dokuwiki and post
  c) Other?

I'm perfectly fine with taking time to get this right, and if we want to
make it friendliest for everyone, then I'm happy to deal with
1) Yes
2) Either (preference: yes)
3) We can paint that bikeshed later; I suspect DWEdit is close enough to
our old wiki that folks can get by, but we know I'm a poor judge of what's
reasonable for members of the Forum ;)
4.a) Punt till later
4.b) I'm sure we all can clean anything up prior to the Chair/Vice-chair
publishing the minutes for F2F 47

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 10:48 AM Jos Purvis (jopurvis) <jopurvis at cisco.com>

> Hmmm. That’s an unintended consequence, for sure! I added CKEditor in an
> attempt to have a GUI editor present for those that preferred editing in
> that mode instead of plain source code. If it’s going to cause problems,
> though, it’s not worth it. I’ll disable it for now and see if anyone yelps
> about it.
> --
> Jos Purvis (jopurvis at cisco.com)
> .:|:.:|:. cisco systems  | Cryptographic Services
> PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105  | +1 919.991.9114 (desk)
> *From: *Infrastructure <infrastructure-bounces at cabforum.org> on behalf of
> Ryan Sleevi <sleevi at google.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 4:31 AM
> *To: *"infrastructure at cabforum.org" <infrastructure at cabforum.org>
> *Subject: *[Infrastructure] Wiki and Markdown
> Recently, in preparing the CA/Browser Forum minutes, I ended up needing to
> spend nearly twenty minutes in the source editing view, just to try to
> correct some bad indentation introduced in a list by another author. The
> sample minutes this person included had multiple layers of invisible
> styling. For example, multiple nested spans setting the same font face,
> multiple nested unordered lists, hard line breaks, etc.
> Even after the most recent F2F, I see multiple font styles and sizes being
> used in the minutes - no doubt coming from various authors pasting from
> their preferred text editor, and that new Dokuwiki preserving that syntax
> as best as possible by using the HTML version from the clipboard.
> I'm worried that this is going to make the wiki harder, rather than
> easier, to maintain. Even 'simple' stuff like formatting a list of items
> should not take so long, and that it does, and is seemingly so easy to make
> the mistake, gives me pause.
> I realize there's seemingly no maintained version for markdown, but it
> seems this hell is coming from CKEditor. Can we disable that for the Wiki?
> Was it intentional to enable this HTML-ized form, and not the 'simple' text
> editing?
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