[Servercert-wg] [EXTERNAL] Request for a Moratorium on New Certificate Consumer Members

Thu May 11 06:19:28 UTC 2023

See response below.

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 9:29 PM Curt Spann <cspann at apple.com> wrote:

> Hello Ben,
>
> Could you help me understand what is the initiator for this moratorium?
> What risk are we currently facing that will be mitigated by these
> detailed Certificate Consumers membership requirements?
>
> Regards,
> Curt
>
>
Hi Curt,

Currently, anyone can create a Chromium-based
<https://www.quora.com/How-would-I-create-a-Chromium-based-browser-similar-to-Opera>
or Firefox-based
<https://alternativeto.net/category/browsers/firefox-based/> browser, and
that might imply that they can become a full voting member of the SCWG
according to the current SCWG Charter: “A Certificate Consumer can
participate in this Working Group if it produces a software product
intended for use by the general public for browsing the Web securely.”
This, of course, is subject to the current voting framework allowed in the
charter.

There are currently 11 Certificate Consumer Members of the CABF
<https://cabforum.org/members/>, and less than half of them regularly
participate in discussions and vote in the SCWG. Therefore, it would be
within reasonable means for a motivated group or global region to create a
small number of browsers, have each of those browsers become a full voting
member of the SCWG, and gain controlling voting power in the SCWG. This
could result in forcing or advancing a political or other agenda.  It would
lower the standards rather than raising them in order to keep up with the
rapidly changing threat landscape. Additionally, diluting the Certificate
Consumer full voting Membership of the SCWG with several not-well-supported
browsers who do not curate their own root store and do not enforce the
Baseline Requirements (BRs) will demotivate the currently actively
participating Certificate Consumer Members (who do curate their own root
stores and enforce the BRs) and discourage them from remaining active in
the CABF.

Requiring a new Certificate Consumer to actively participate in the SCWG
for at least six months before becoming a full voting member will enable
the new Certificate Consumer to demonstrate their commitment to improving
security on the web and learn how to be a constructive member of the SCWG
before obtaining full voting membership.  Enabling a new Certificate
Consumer to be a non-voting member of the SCWG would allow them to claim
CABF membership if they are simply trying to meet marketing goals, and
hopefully will help the Certificate Consumer learn more about web security,
the BRs, and how to enforce them.

There are risks in continuing to allow applications for full voting
membership as Certificate Consumers in the SCWG before the membership
requirements are updated.  Foremost, the membership criteria will likely
change during the ballot process. Meanwhile, there may be a string of
membership requests that are denied under the current framework. They will
not get their opportunity to meet the proposed criteria or prove their
ability to contribute to the improvement and enforcement of the BRs. The
result may be a denial of membership to new Certificate Consumers that
could potentially have turned out to be valued contributors to the CABF if
given a chance to learn and prove themselves first, and it will also create
negative optics for the CABF.

Thanks,

Ben

> On May 9, 2023, at 11:20 PM, Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg <
> servercert-wg at cabforum.org> wrote:
>
> Here is a redlined version of the SCWG Charter with proposed new
> membership requirements for your review:
>
>
> https://github.com/cabforum/forum/compare/d908a475e59e64fd9224e878864386ebc0b68808..cee99ea840388ad600ef38f4950beff7313defba
>
> Ben
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:45 AM Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg <
> servercert-wg at cabforum.org> wrote:
>
>> Here is a draft ballot. I'm looking for one more endorser, preferably
>> from a Certificate Issuer member.
>>
>> *Ballot SC-0XX:  Establish a Temporary Moratorium on New Certificate
>> Consumer Memberships*
>>
>> *Purpose of the Ballot*
>>
>> During discussions at Face-to-Face Meeting 58, it was noted that the
>> membership criteria for Certificate Consumers in the Charter for the Server
>> Certificate Working Group (SCWG) lacked sufficient detail. Since then,
>> several members of the CA/Browser Forum have worked to develop better
>> criteria for membership of Certificate Consumers in the SCWG. A moratorium
>> is necessary to preserve the status quo and ensure impartiality while we
>> re-evaluate and revise our membership criteria so that they are more clear,
>> fair, and aligned with the goals of the Forum.
>>
>> The following motion has been proposed by Ben Wilson of Mozilla and
>> endorsed by Tobias Josefowitz of Opera and _____ of _____.
>>
>> *Motion Begins*
>>
>> Effective immediately, there is a temporary moratorium established on the
>> acceptance of applications for membership as Certificate Consumer members
>> in the Server Certificate Working Group. This moratorium will expire on XX,
>> 2023, or prior to such date, upon publication of the Forum’s vote on a
>> revised Charter for the Server Certificate Working Group.
>>
>> During the moratorium, the Server Certificate Working Group will not
>> accept or consider applications for membership as Certificate Consumers.
>> Applications for other types of membership may be accepted and considered.
>>
>> *Motion Ends*
>>
>>
>> This ballot does not propose a Final Guideline or Final Maintenance
>> Guideline.  The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:
>>
>> Discussion (7 days)
>>
>>     Start Time: 2023-05-XX  xx:xx UTC
>>
>>     End Time: Not before 2023-05-xx  xx:xx UTC
>>
>>
>> Vote for approval (7 days)
>>
>>     Start Time: TBD
>>
>>     End Time: TBD
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 10:28 PM Ben Wilson <bwilson at mozilla.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I reiterate my intent that we establish a moratorium on admitting new
>>> Certificate Consumer members until we have updated the criteria for
>>> membership of Certificate Consumers.
>>>
>>> I think we've made good progress on refining a set of membership
>>> criteria, which I'll soon share, but the effort takes time. A moratorium
>>> will allow us to re-evaluate our criteria and revise them so that they are
>>> more clear, fair, and aligned with the goals of the Forum.
>>>
>>> I am looking for one more endorser so that I can propose a ballot that
>>> would formalize the moratorium.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 6:39 PM Ben Wilson <bwilson at mozilla.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've set up a call for those interested in discussing this. It's on
>>>> Wednesday, 12-April-2023, at 1400 UTC.
>>>> I'll send out the dial-in/Zoom information separately for those
>>>> interested.
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 3:22 PM Ben Wilson <bwilson at mozilla.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> These are all things that I would like to discuss with those of you
>>>>> who are interested in helping to work on the membership requirements for
>>>>> Certificate Consumers in the Server Certificate WG.  Those of you who
>>>>> are interested, please send me email, and I'll set up a discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 2:44 AM Paul van Brouwershaven <
>>>>> Paul.vanBrouwershaven at entrust.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are some intial questions on your proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That the Applicant develops and maintains its own code;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you explain what you mean with this, I suppose that this does not
>>>>>> mean that Microsoft can no longer be a Certificate Consumer as their
>>>>>> browser is based on Chromium? What would this say about the usage of
>>>>>> Open-Source code, etc.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That the Applicant provides a browser for both mobile and desktop
>>>>>> platforms;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Certificate Consumers are Application Software Suppliers, and these
>>>>>> are not limited to browsers. Why would a Certificate Consumer be required
>>>>>> to provide an application for both mobile and desktop platforms?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That the Applicant has an installed user base of at least one tenth
>>>>>> of a percent of all browsers in use globally (or some other comparable
>>>>>> objective measurement);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This means that the CA/Browser Forum is excluding all browsers that
>>>>>> would like to enter the market until they have a sufficient user base,
>>>>>> which might take years for new browsers, or a browser might even choose to
>>>>>> operate in a niche market, for example in a specific demographic. While it
>>>>>> is not required to be a Certificate Consumer Member to operate a browser or
>>>>>> a root store, it feels like this is hindering new/niche browsers to
>>>>>> participate on an equal level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That the Applicant and its representatives have never been
>>>>>> sanctioned for misconduct;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you be more specific on "sanctioned for misconduct", for what and
>>>>>> by who? This would currently mean that an employee of a certificate
>>>>>> consumer would be sanctioned for life for any misconduct of any
>>>>>> form, which can be irrelevant for the CA/Browser forum, we probably should
>>>>>> provide a path to rehabilitation in the aftermath of misconduct in a way
>>>>>> that recognizes the humanity of those involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That the Applicant has actively participated in the CA/Browser
>>>>>> Forum as a non-voting Associate Member for at least one year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the purpose of this requirement, we don't have this
>>>>>> requirement for certificate issuers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Servercert-wg <servercert-wg-bounces at cabforum.org> on behalf
>>>>>> of Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg <servercert-wg at cabforum.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 5, 2023 18:30
>>>>>> *To:* CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <
>>>>>> servercert-wg at cabforum.org>
>>>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] Request for a Moratorium on
>>>>>> New Certificate Consumer Members
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust.
>>>>>> DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and
>>>>>> know the content is safe.
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to request a moratorium on admitting new Certificate
>>>>>> Consumer members to the Server Certificate Working Group until we have
>>>>>> updated the criteria for membership of Certificate Consumers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The basis for this request is that we are in the process of
>>>>>> developing better criteria for membership of Certificate Consumers. As
>>>>>> noted during Face-to-Face meeting #58, our current requirement of
>>>>>> “produc[ing] a software product intended for use by the general public for
>>>>>> browsing the Web securely” lacks sufficient detail. Here are a few things
>>>>>> we are considering that should be part of the membership criteria for
>>>>>> Certificate Consumers:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant develops and maintains its own code;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant maintains its own root store;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant provides a browser for both mobile and desktop
>>>>>> platforms;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant patches and delivers automatic updates of its
>>>>>> browser software and root store;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant has publicly disclosed and documented processes
>>>>>> for its users to report problems and to receive updates on the resolution
>>>>>> of those problems;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant has an installed user base of at least one tenth
>>>>>> of a percent of all browsers in use globally (or some other comparable
>>>>>> objective measurement);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant employs developers and infosec-trained
>>>>>> professionals;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant’s representatives regularly, consistently, and
>>>>>> actively participate in relevant standards bodies such as the W3C, IETF,
>>>>>> WHATWG, and OWASP;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant and its representatives have never been sanctioned
>>>>>> for misconduct;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant has a good history of compliance with industry
>>>>>> standards, including but not limited to HTML (
>>>>>> https://platform.html5.org
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://platform.html5.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!Ypa5WQHN2FbZUYE7Kjs1Lm1fL3oRd24UBjDyVngBxMiVnOxRmyqQtMzEv8h1TC7QxqctX2YlUpiW8WiW1vjLTb4ekfWZTPL5ytmb$>);
>>>>>> CSS (https://www.w3.org/TR/css-2023/
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/TR/css-2023/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!Ypa5WQHN2FbZUYE7Kjs1Lm1fL3oRd24UBjDyVngBxMiVnOxRmyqQtMzEv8h1TC7QxqctX2YlUpiW8WiW1vjLTb4ekfWZTE2pxyS5$>);
>>>>>> JavaScript, HTTPS/TLS, and the IETF RFCs, such as RFC 5280;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant’s browser passes at least certain percentages of
>>>>>> various test suites (Acid Tests, Test 262 and web-platform-tests);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That the Applicant has a published commitment to user security and
>>>>>> privacy; and
>>>>>> That the Applicant has actively participated in the CA/Browser Forum
>>>>>> as a non-voting Associate Member for at least one year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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