[Servercert-wg] Final minutes of the 25th May meeting v2

Inigo Barreira Inigo.Barreira at sectigo.com
Fri Jun 23 09:49:01 UTC 2023

These are the Final Minutes of the Teleconference described in the subject
of this message, prepared by Eva Van Steenberge (Globalsign).


Aaron Poulsen - (Amazon), Adam Jones - (Microsoft), Ben Wilson - (Mozilla),
Bruce Morton - (Entrust), Cade Cairns - (Google), Chad Ehlers - (IdenTrust),
Clint Wilson - (Apple), Corey Bonnell - (DigiCert), Corey Rasmussen -
(OATI), Daryn Wright - (GoDaddy), Dean Coclin - (DigiCert), Dimitris
Zacharopoulos - (HARICA), Doug Beattie - (GlobalSign), Dustin Hollenback -
(Microsoft), Ellie Lu - (TrustAsia Technologies, Inc.), Enrico Entschew -
(D-TRUST), Eva Vansteenberge - (GlobalSign), Fumi Yoneda - (Japan Registry
Services), Inaba Atsushi - (GlobalSign), Inigo Barreira - (Sectigo), Jamie
Mackey - (US Federal PKI Management Authority), Joanna Fox - (TrustCor
Systems), Jos Purvis - (Fastly), Karina Sirota - (Microsoft), Kiran Tummala
- (Microsoft), Kyle Duren - (Yahoo Inc), Lynn Jeun - (Visa), Mads
Henriksveen - (Buypass AS), Marco Schambach - (IdenTrust), Michelle Coon -
(OATI), Miguel Sanchez - (Google), Nate Smith - (GoDaddy), Paul van
Brouwershaven - (Entrust), Pedro Fuentes - (OISTE Foundation), Peter
Miskovic - (Disig), Rebecca Kelley - (Apple), Rollin Yu - (TrustAsia
Technologies, Inc.), Ryan Dickson - (Google), Scott Rea - (eMudhra),
Tadahiko Ito - (SECOM Trust Systems), Thomas Zermeno - (SSL.com), Tim
Hollebeek - (DigiCert), Tobias Josefowitz - (Opera Software AS), Trevoli
Ponds-White - (Amazon), Wendy Brown - (US Federal PKI Management Authority),
Yoshiro Yoneya - (Japan Registry Services).

Server certificate WG

*	Minutes:

*	May 11th, circulated: approved
*	April 22nd, sent this morning: put for approval for next call

*	Membership: 

*	Yahoo: invited: Kyle: you have to be invited for every call, not
granted by default.
*	Commscope: we received IPR. Dean: Associate member status, their
root has not been accepted by browsers. Should be non-controversial.
*	QikFox: Paul van Brouwershaven (Entrust) downloaded application;
confirmed browser.

*	Ben Wilson (Mozilla) noted this was not a criteria for membership,
but for maintaining membership: update their software at least every 6
*	Clint Wilson (Apple) raised that chromium (as the engine) hasn’t
been updated since August/September 22, no update log, no schedule, couldn’t
find when it was last updated.
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) asked if there is a requirement when
they enter the group to ask? It is an ending requirement, people could
challenge them once they joined but it’s not an impediment to become a
*	Paul van Brouwershaven (Entrust) confirmed he checked the signature
which was dated on 14th of February 2023, so within 6 months.
*	Clint Wilson (Apple) pointed out that this was not necessarily an
indication of an update
*	Paul van Brouwershaven (Entrust) confirmed this was merely the last
time they signed the browser, but no change log.
*	Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo) asked a question to Dean, if we did reply
with something?
*	Dean: nothing since before the last meeting (confirmation they were
a browser was necessary)
*	Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo) confirmed that we hadn’t replied to them
for a while. Approve the application?
*	Dean: Unless there’s a call to vote, dissent noted in previous
minutes, unless someone does, there’s no choice but to approve.
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) confirmed interpretation
*	Dean: confirmed membership is approved, will inform them and upload
IPR and addition to mailing list and wiki

*	Inform Commscope: 
*	Logius: waiting for SMIME WG decision, if SMIME accepts, then we can
remove from server cert wg. Will contact Steven. 

*	Issues:

*	Issues related to NetSec have been moved to NetSec. Informed Clint
there will be a few open issues there.
*	Question: proposal for 3.3 by external person. Can external people

*	Dean Coclin (DigiCert) clarified they can’t because they didn’t sign
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) highlighted that they can post
because it’s public.

*	Past practice is to respond to the issue that they have to sign the
IPR agreement and become an interested party, then close issue. There’s
several examples handled by Ryan Sleevi in the past.

*	Ben Wilson (Mozilla) asked Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) if he
wrote something.
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) confirmed that it was short because
he happened to know the external party, and wasn’t sure if the IP issues
were resolved or not. He said that this can be handled however the chair
wants to handle it, can be long or short.
*	Clint Wilson (Apple) agreed with everything that’s been said. He
asked if the question could have been sent to the questions list – maybe
that’s a way to respond, divert them to the question list. 
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) pointed out that this could bypass
the IP protections.
*	Clint Wilson (Apple) suggested that what was posted wasn’t a
proposal, but a suggestion to take up this topic. There was no contribution,
just pointing towards an RFC.
*	Tim Hollebeek (DigiCert) raised the more general point that we don’t
have an answer. In Github, we couldn’t always enforce access control because
things were being discussed in private repositories. This was a big issue
with the profile ballot discussion, outside of an IP control area. It’s a
reasonable concern that was never properly resolved, and that we should look
at github process to make it more compliant with IP protection, especially
in the light of contributors (not as much for people asking questions). 
*	Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) suggested we could ask the person to
become interested party and participate in mailing list.
*	Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo) said he would reply and say just that, just
sign IPR.

o   Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo): Tables weren’t correctly formatted – what is
the status? Part of the clean-up?

*	Ryan responded that Jos mentioned this would be brought up in the
forum infrastructure working group?

*	Last point: QGIS validation.

Pedro mentioned that this topic was already discussed a few weeks ago, more
or less consensus that EVGs, by fact that they don’t specify the use of QGIS
when doing organization validation, it could be understood that it is not
allowed. On the other hand he highlighted that there’s no stipulation to
disclose QGIS for certain validations. Pedro shared previous slides on the
topic. Minutes show the presented (and comprehensive) slides.


Ben Wilson (Mozilla) had some comments but didn’t want to take more time. He
asked if this could be moved to an email tread or to the F2F or some other

Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo) suggested adding it to the F2F agenda.

Pedro was happy to share the text for discussion.

Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) suggested sharing a PDF, and Iñigo Barreira
(Sectigo) proposed taking the discussion to Github. Tim Hollebeek (DigiCert)
said he was willing to work with Pedro on this for a ballot.

*	Potential topics for the F2f agenda:

*	New meeting slot.
*	Presentation from Paul.
*	Another presentation by Amazon Trust Services
*	Any other topic? Just let Iñigo Barreira (Sectigo) know.

*	Ballot status

*	Ryan is working on SC63, lots of comments on Github. We’re in
version 2, continue discussion there?

*	Ryan said that comments died down, there was a suggestion for some
structural changes. This was incorporated. Rob from Sectigo had a comment
which was also addressed.
*	Ryan specified it was the intent to proceed with the discussion in
version 3, which he hoped would be the last version and he encouraged
checking changes. He appreciated everybody sticking by while the text was
fine-tuned. He noted that there’s a separate branch. This will be the basis
for version 3.

*	Debian weak keys: Tom confirmed that there were two endorses and the
final language was being approved, and hopefully the ballot should be on the
list today.
*	Moratorium: Ben Wilson (Mozilla) is working on this, but he needs a
second endorser. With the approval of QikFox, he mentioned he didn’t want to
go through another application and have the same situation happen. 

No other business.

Next call on June 22nd.




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