[cabfpub] Ad-hoc Bylaw Review group

[Wayne Thayer]

Tim,

>From your message, I'm not sure if you're offering to coordinate such a
group and are looking for volunteers, or just pointing out the way forward?
If you're looking for volunteers, count me in.

- Wayne

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM Tim Hollebeek via Public <
public at cabforum.org> wrote:

> The relevant question at this point is who would participate in and
> contribute to an effort to review the Bylaws line by line, and determine
> whether the provision applies to the Forum as a whole, Chartered Working
> Groups, and/or Subcommittees, and whether the provision can be overridden
> by a lower level group.
>
>
>
> The effort would also provide default provisions for Chartered Working
> Groups, for the case that the provision is applicable to the Chartered
> Working Group (and, by implication, its Subcommittees) but absent from the
> group’s Charter.
>
>
>
> Having a small group come up with a draft proposal after a detailed review
> is probably the fastest way forward.
>
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* Public <public-bounces at cabforum.org> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Sleevi
> via Public
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:55 AM
> *To:* Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall at entrustdatacard.com>
> *Cc:* CABFPub <public at cabforum.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [cabfpub] Proposed Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1(f) - Default
> procedures for new Chartered Working Groups
>
>
>
> Kirk,
>
>
>
> I'm afraid that wasn't my question, nor was it a suggestion.
>
>
>
> It sounds like you haven't done what was discussed - an evaluation of the
> bylaws. I'm hoping you can make a more compelling case that these will
> address the issues. One way to make such a compelling case is to highlight
> "The Bylaws require CWGs specify how to address X, Y, Z in their charters.
> Here are samples we can use to address Y and Z in a generic way". This was
> the path discussed as a positive step forward, and it does not appear this
> does it.
>
>
>
> For example, your proposal is clearly deficient and fails to address what
> was discussed - such as how the formation of subcommittees is done, which
> the Bylaws call for in 5.3.1(e). This is the problem with rushing to
> provide language, and ignoring the discussions on possible paths forward -
> it easily leads to avoidable mistakes.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:50 AM Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall at entrustdatacard.com>
> wrote:
>
> Good point.  We can modify my language so the default provisions in my
> proposal below would apply to new CWGs **and all subcommittees created by
> a CWG*”.  How does that sound to you?
>
>
>
> Do you have any other edits to suggest?
>
>
>
> *From:* Ryan Sleevi [mailto:sleevi at google.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:46 PM
> *To:* Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall at entrustdatacard.com>; CABFPub <
> public at cabforum.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Proposed Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1(f) -
> Default procedures for new Chartered Working Groups
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for proposing this.
>
>
>
> It does not seem to address some of the other topics that were discussed,
> such as the formation of subcommittees.
>
>
>
> We left the discussion with a call to provide a methodical analysis of
> where the bylaws defer to a CWGs charter, to provide better example
> guidance. Have you done this? It might be better to start from there,
> rather than proposing ballot text immediately following such discussions,
> so that we can actually have confidence that the issues are being addressed.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:43 AM Kirk Hall via Public <public at cabforum.org>
> wrote:
>
> As we discussed this morning, we need certain “default” procedures for how
> *new* Working Groups operate, which could (in theory) be specifically
> overridden by the Forum by passing *different* procedures for a particular
> CWG in the charter of a new Chartered Working Group (CWG).
>
>
>
> It is unlikely that we would ever override these standard Bylaws
> provisions for an individual CWG charter, but it would be possible.
>
>
>
> A CWG could *also* adopt *additional* procedures for its CWG by a CWG
> ballot if it wants to, so long as the additional procedures do not conflict
> with the CWG charter and/or Bylaw Sec. 5.3.1(f).
>
>
>
> So this is a potential Forum ballot to amend the Bylaws – please comment:
>
>
>
>
>
> *Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1 - Formation of Chartered Working Groups ****
>
>
>
> *(f) **Unless otherwise specifically provided in the charter of a CWG, a
> CWG shall be governed by the following rules:*
>
>
>
> 1.       *Each CWG shall have a Chair and Vice Chair who shall be elected
> by CWG members following the procedures of Bylaws Section 4.1 as closely as
> possible.  The initial term for CWG officers shall expire on November 30 of
> the next even-numbered year after the CWG is established to be synchronized
> with the terms of Forum officers.*
>
>
>
> 2.       *Proposing and voting on CWG Ballots by CWG members shall follow
> the procedures stated in Bylaws Sec. 2.3 and 2.4*.
>
>
>
> * * * * *
>
>
>
> [*Note*: Bylaws Sec. 5.2 *already* requires CWGs to post Agendas,
> Minutes, and Ballots to the Public lists – see below -  so I don’t think we
> need more default provisions on those subjects.   LWG means Legacy Working
> Group, and all Legacy Working Groups have expired.]
>
>
> Bylaws Sec. 5.2 - Public Mail List and Public Web Site [Existing language]
>
>
>
> The Chair shall appoint a List Manager who shall maintain a Public Mail
> List. Members and Interested Parties may post to the Public Mail List in
> compliance with these Bylaws. Anyone else is allowed to subscribe to and
> receive messages posted to the Public Mail List, which may be crawled and
> indexed by Internet search engines.
>
>
>
> The Chair shall appoint a Webmaster. The Webmaster shall post instructions
> on the Public Web Site for subscribing to the Public Mail List.
>
>
>
> The following materials shall be posted to the Public Mail List or Public
> Web Site:
>
>
>
> (a)    Draft and final agendas for LWG and *CWG* meetings, Forum Meetings
> and Forum Teleconferences (including any sub-groups or committees).
>
> (b)    Final minutes of Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences
> (including minutes of any sub- groups or committees), and minutes of all
> LWG and *CWG* teleconferences and meetings.
>
> (c)     Messages formally proposing a Forum ballot (including ballots to
> establish, extend, modify, or terminate LWGs (as applicable) and *CWGs*),
> individual votes, vote and quorum counts, and messages announcing ballot
> outcomes and voting breakdowns.
>
> (d)    Initial and final drafts of Forum requirements, guidelines, and
> recommendations after the drafter has had an opportunity to receive and
> respond to initial Member comments.
>
> (e)    Initial and final drafts of *CWG* charter documents, guidelines,
> and recommendations after the drafter has had an opportunity to receive and
> respond to initial Working Group member comments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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