[cabfpub] Ballot 218: Remove validation methods #1 and #5

Dimitris Zacharopoulos jimmy at it.auth.gr
Mon Jan 8 11:05:17 UTC 2018

On 8/1/2018 11:24 πμ, Ryan Sleevi wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 4:11 AM, Dimitris Zacharopoulos 
> <jimmy at it.auth.gr <mailto:jimmy at it.auth.gr>> wrote:
>>     An example of pre-existing TLD adhering to this is .gov (in the
>>     US) - and I'm guessing you know of one or more ccTLDs that also
>>     fit into this category?
>>     The advantage being is that this permits non-gTLDs (i.e. those
>>     within the ICANN sphere of oversight) to use methods 'equivalent'
>>     to WHOIS. The disadvantage is that, in the absence of the
>>     registry agreements, the level of assurance or equivalence of
>>     those respective methods is at the determination of the ccTLD/TLD
>>     operator and the CA, and not uniform in assurance or reliability.
>     The level of assurance for Domain Contact phone numbers and e-mail
>     addresses is pretty much the same in most gTLD, ccTLD cases,
>     that's why I proposed that they are combined with methods
> or
> I don't believe we can simply state this. That is, we can objectively 
> evaluate, say, the ICANN Registry agreement, and the means in which 
> the information is provided and maintained, and make a determination 
> on that. Outside of those cases - legacy TLDs and ccTLDs - it's less 
> clear that we can objectively reach the same conclusions.
>     I am hoping to have the WHOIS "equivalent" methods for all
>     Domains. We are talking about Domain Validation methods so I don't
>     think we should use "Organization Information" of WHOIS or Domain
>     Registrar records to validate Domain ownership.
> I wonder, then, if it would resolve your concerns about the removal of 
> to update the Domain Contact method - the issues I 
> highlighted on variability notwithstanding. That is, it sounds like 
> we're in agreement that, as worded, is entirely ambiguous as 
> to the level of assurance provided. The methods of contacting in 
> are acceptable, the only question is how we determine the 
> information. We allow WHOIS, for example, but as worded, it would 
> preclude RDAP or other forms, and would preclude the cases (such as 
> .gov) in which direct registry contact is required.
> Domain Contact: The Domain Name Registrant, technical contact, or 
> administrative contract (or the equivalent under a ccTLD) as provided 
> by the Domain Registrar or, for TLDs in which the Registry provides 
> information, the Registry. Acceptable methods of determination include 
> the WHOIS record of the Base Domain Name, within a DNS SOA record 
> [Note: This includes the hierarchal tree walking, by virtue of 
>'s recursion], or through direct contact with the applicable 
> Domain Name Registrar or Domain Name Registry.
> This can then be separately expanded to RDAP, or be moved more 
> formally in to a section within 3.2 as to acceptable methods for the 
> determination of the Domain Contact (e.g. moving the normative 
> requirements for validation outside of the definition).
> That seems like it would resolve the issues, right?

I am a bit confused about the agreements part between registries and 
registrars but I don't think it is a blocking factor for our discussion. 
At the end of the day, the Domain owner provides contact information to 
a Registrar and these records are kept by the Registrar. Registrars 
probably don't need to validate anything (e-mail addresses, phone 
numbers). Domain owners have the incentive to provide accurate 
information so that they can be contacted if something bad happens with 
their Domain. If this information is inaccurate, the CA will probably 
not be able to reach the Domain owner to validate. There have been cases 
of Domain hijacking but I don't think that the CA/Browser Forum should 
try to solve this problem.

We already have a definition for Domain Name Registrar which covers the 
ccTLD cases.

"Domain Name Registrar: A person or entity that registers Domain Names 
under the auspices of or by agreement with: (i) the Internet Corporation 
for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), (ii) a national Domain Name 
authority/registry, or (iii) a Network Information Center (including 
their affiliates, contractors, delegates, successors, or assigns)".

We don't currently define "Registry" but there are several places where 
we use "registry-controlled, or public-suffix". Perhaps we can leave it 
as is.

How about using simpler language?

"Domain Contact: The Domain Name Registrant, technical contact, or 
administrative contract (or the equivalent under a ccTLD) as listed in 
the WHOIS record of the Base Domain Name or in a DNS SOA record or 
through direct contact with the Domain Name Registrar."

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