[cabfpub] Random value reuse

[Peter Bowen]

In methods 2 & 4 it goes to the domain contact or a role account at the domain.  Giving it to the applicant voids the whole purpose of the exercise, as the applicant isn’t the one who needs to approve the request.

Thanks,
Peter

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com> wrote:
> 
> How do you figure? They can provide it by email to the applicant.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Bowen [mailto:pzb at amzn.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 3:46 PM
> To: Ben Wilson <ben.wilson at digicert.com>
> Cc: geoffk at apple.com; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <public at cabforum.org>; Gervase Markham <gerv at mozilla.org>; Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com>; Rich Smith <richard.smith at comodo.com>
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Random value reuse
> 
> That definition is problematic.  In methods 2 & 4, the CA doesn’t provide the random value to the applicant.
> 
>> On Aug 9, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Ben Wilson <ben.wilson at digicert.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I suppose you're right, since the definition of "Random Value" is "A value specified by a CA to the Applicant that exhibits at least 112 bits of entropy."
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: geoffk at apple.com [mailto:geoffk at apple.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 3:30 PM
>> To: Ben Wilson <ben.wilson at digicert.com>
>> Cc: CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <public at cabforum.org>; 
>> Gervase Markham <gerv at mozilla.org>; Jeremy Rowley 
>> <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com>; Rich Smith <richard.smith at comodo.com>; 
>> Peter Bowen <pzb at amzn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Random value reuse
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9 Aug 2017, at 2:24 pm, Ben Wilson <ben.wilson at digicert.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Agreed.  And each method should stand on its own without cross-referencing among methods (otherwise tracking the particular method used will be too complicated).  So I'm OK without cross-referencing methods.
>>> 
>>> But are we clear enough?  For example, the currently proposed method 10 could probably benefit from better language on how the applicant obtains the random value.  Currently it only says, "Confirming the Applicant's control over the FQDN by confirming the presence of a Random Value within a Certificate on the Authorization Domain Name which is accessible by the CA via TLS over an Authorized Port."  The other methods seem to specify the process more thoroughly.
>> 
>> I think it doesn’t matter, in this case, how the Random Value gets to the Applicant—we don’t want to overspecify things like this, because that limits the ability of CAs to innovate.
>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: geoffk at apple.com [mailto:geoffk at apple.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 3:11 PM
>>> To: Ben Wilson <ben.wilson at digicert.com>; CA/Browser Forum Public 
>>> Discussion List <public at cabforum.org>
>>> Cc: Gervase Markham <gerv at mozilla.org>; Jeremy Rowley 
>>> <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com>; Rich Smith <richard.smith at comodo.com>; 
>>> Peter Bowen <pzb at amzn.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Random value reuse
>>> 
>>> I think that’s where the ‘single communication’ rule really helps.  
>>> Then this is taken care of by the descriptions of the methods: if you 
>>> have to send the random value to a particular place, then obviously 
>>> that can’t be combined with a random value sent some other way; if 
>>> you have to put it in a particular place, then it doesn’t matter how 
>>> it was sent…
>>> 
>>>> On 9 Aug 2017, at 1:54 pm, Ben Wilson via Public <public at cabforum.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Putting the  issue of "reuse" aside, do we need to clarify this issue of which random value methods can be used in combination with others?  It seems that a random value could be provided to the domain contact / admin under methods 2, 3 (if you wanted) or 4 and then used within 30 days for methods 2, 4, 6, 7 and 10,  but not vice versa.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Public [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Gervase Markham via Public
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 9:02 AM
>>>> To: Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com>; CA/Browser Forum 
>>>> Public Discussion List <public at cabforum.org>; Rich Smith 
>>>> <richard.smith at comodo.com>; 'Peter Bowen' <pzb at amzn.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Random value reuse
>>>> 
>>>> On 28/07/17 14:53, Jeremy Rowley via Public wrote:
>>>>> I think the random value should be tied to a single communication 
>>>>> without reuse.  For example, a single email sent to the constructed 
>>>>> emails, a single API call, a single phone call, etc.  The random 
>>>>> value shouldn’t be tied to a method, but should be tied to a 
>>>>> specific communication from the CA that is tied to a request. By 
>>>>> getting rid of the reuse language, we can simplify the process and 
>>>>> eliminate the risk associated with reuse.
>>>> 
>>>> Right. New random values are cheap :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Gerv
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>> 
>