[cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
Ryan Hurst
ryan.hurst at globalsign.com
Thu Aug 1 12:03:18 UTC 2013
Is it not a problem if you are giving those customers certificates that are trusted for SSL server authentication?
Ryan Hurst
Chief Technology Officer
GMO Globalsign
twitter: @rmhrisk
email: ryan.hurst at globalsign.com
phone: 206-650-7926
Sent from my phone, please forgive the brevity.
On Aug 1, 2013, at 2:04 PM, "Rijt, R.A. van de (Robert) - Logius" <robert.vande.rijt at logius.nl> wrote:
> For qualified certificates under ETSI that need to be publicly trusted, a private root would not be an option. Moreover, developing a private, not-publicly trusted root and rolling out end-entity certificates takes time. I am talking about a year at least.
>
> I wonder if everyone else is realizing the impact on “non-SSL” certificates. Especially the CA’s not participating in the CABforum because they do not issue SSL certs (or thought they did not), but do have a publicly trusted root.
>
> Robert
>
> Van: Jeremy Rowley [mailto:jeremy.rowley at digicert.com]
> Verzonden: donderdag 1 augustus 2013 12:56
> Aan: Rijt, R.A. van de (Robert) - Logius; 'Ryan Hurst'
> CC: 'CABFPub'
> Onderwerp: RE: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
> Which is why you will now have to issue these off a root not trusted by a participating browser. The safetynet is the problem since makes them an SSL cert. I don’t think you can both have a safetynet like this and issue the cert from a trusted root.
>
> Jeremy
>
> From: Rijt, R.A. van de (Robert) - Logius [mailto:robert.vande.rijt at logius.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 4:53 AM
> To: Ryan Hurst; jeremy.rowley at digicert.com
> Cc: CABFPub
> Subject: RE: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
>
> Thanks for your reply, Jeremy. I conclude that with this new definition:
>
> 1. We are forcing everyone with public certificates to use the EKU;
> 2. We are forcing everyone with public certificates not to use the anyExtendedKeyUsage unless it is a SSL certificate;
> 3. thereby forcing everyone to spell out all the applicable EKUs one–by-one. My experience is that a lot of software cannot handle this, so the certificate cannot be used for the function intended. That is why the anyExtendedKeyUsage is often used as a safetynet.
>
> Robert
>
>
> Van: Ryan Hurst [mailto:ryan.hurst at globalsign.com]
> Verzonden: donderdag 1 augustus 2013 12:45
> Aan: jeremy.rowley at digicert.com
> CC: Rijt, R.A. van de (Robert) - Logius; CABFPub
> Onderwerp: Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
> I concur with Jeremy's analysis.
>
> Ryan Hurst
> Chief Technology Officer
> GMO Globalsign
>
> twitter: @rmhrisk
> email: ryan.hurst at globalsign.com
> phone: 206-650-7926
>
> Sent from my phone, please forgive the brevity.
>
> On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:12 PM, "Jeremy Rowley" <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com> wrote:
>
> HI Rijt,
>
> I think the certificates you mentioned will (and should) qualify under the BRs if are issued from a root that is included in one of the adopting browser’s trust stores.
>
> Here’s my logic:
> 1) Certs that don’t have an EKU or that include the anyEKU can be used as SSL certs, regardless of their intended purposes and should (arguably) be under the BRs.
> 2) However, as you mentioned, many certificates assert the anyEKU, have noEKU, or even contain the server authentication EKU that are never intended to be used on a server.
> 3) I believe the certificates referenced typically lack an FQDN. Including these certificates under the BR umbrella is problematic because the certificates can’t function in the intended manner and comply with the BRs. The CN is an identifier for the equipment, which violates Section 9.2.2 of the BRs.
> 4) Requiring an FQDN for inclusion in the BRs is not a way forward since that would make the sections on internal server names out of scope of the BRs. In fact, the identifier in these certificates is indistinguishable from and qualifies as an internal name, meaning the certificate presents all of the concerns previously expressed by PayPal. Continuing to trust these certificates would be the same as not deprecating internal server name certificates
> 5) Therefore, these certificates must either be included in the BRs, and include an FQDN, or need to be issued off of a non-publicly trusted root certificate.
>
> The position you expressed is why I wanted to raise the issue and why I think we need to resolve what the BRs actually cover.
>
> Jeremy
>
> From: public-bounces at cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] On Behalf Of Rijt, R.A. van de (Robert) - Logius
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:05 AM
> To: 'CABFPub'
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
> Although I understand the need for tightening the definition and I can follow the reasoning below to a certain point I feel that, instead of tightening it, the new definition seems to have broadened the scope. The vast majority of certificates issued under the Logius PKIoverheid root are not intended for the identification of SSL servers. However, roughly 90% of these certificates will now fall under this new definition. In the present version, the scope made clear that the BR only addressed certificates meant for servers.
>
> What about personal certificates on a SSCD that have no EKU or have an anyExtendedKeyUsage as a safetynet? Would these certificates suddenly by seen as SSL certificates although they are obviously not intended for servers? What about certificates issued to autonomous devices such as onboard computers in taxicabs or domestic gas meters, to name but two? Would these be considered SSL certificates if they have no EKU or the clientauth EKU in combination with anyExtendedKeyUsage?
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> Van: public-bounces at cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] Namens Ryan Sleevi
> Verzonden: maandag 29 juli 2013 22:57
> Aan: Kelvin Yiu
> CC: CABFPub
> Onderwerp: Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
> They're still respected (for better or worse) by Apple, NSS, and Android.
>
> Even if that changed tomorrow, the fact that a significant portion of the deployed user base for those products may not upgrade immediately suggests it would be wise to keep them in scope - especially given that even few products implement Microsoft's EKU chaining behaviour for intermediates.
>
> On Jul 29, 2013 1:52 PM, "Kelvin Yiu" <kelviny at exchange.microsoft.com> wrote:
> I prefer to drop any mention of the MS or Netscape SGC OIDs. These OIDs have been obsolete for over a decade and have ceased to have any meaning on MS platforms since Windows 2000.
>
> Kelvin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-bounces at cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sleevi
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 12:35 PM
> To: jeremy rowley
> Cc: CABFPub
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 108: Clarifying the scope of the baseline requirements
>
> Jeremy,
>
> If I might suggest a slight modification to the wording, which still leaves things a little ambiguous. "All root and intermediate certificates included in a browser's trust store" - AIUI, none of the browsers are really accepting intermediates to the trust store at this point.
>
> This was a sticky point when working on Mozilla's wording on this policy to. Luckily, the terminology for "Root CA" and "Subordinate CA"
> may be sufficient here to help clarify.
>
> "All root certificates included in a browser's trust store, all subordinate CA certificates signed by one of these root certificates, and all end-entity certificates that either lack any Extended Key Usage extension or contain an Extended Key Usage extension that contains one of the following:
> - Server Authentication (1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1)
> - anyExtendedKeyUsage (2.5.29.37.0)
> - Netscape Server Gated Cryptography (2.16.840.1.113730.4.1)
> - Microsoft Server Gated Cryptography (1.3.6.1.4.1.311.10.3.3) are expressly covered by these requirements."
>
> Note that Appendix B, 3.F lists other values as SHOULD NOT. However, that presumably only applies when a certificate is 'in scope' of the BRs, hence the restatement of potential EKUs that are relevant.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.rowley at digicert.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> >
> >
> > As mentioned on the phone call last week, CAs have claimed exemption
> > from the BRs because the definition of a publicly-trusted SSL certificate is not
> > clear. I would like to clarify the scope of the BRs to avoid confusion on
> > what particular certificate contents are necessary to require
> > compliance. I am looking for on endorser (Stephen Davidson has already endorsed).
> >
> >
> >
> > The third paragraph of Section 1 of the baseline requirements is:
> >
> > "This version of the Requirements only addresses Certificates intended
> > to be used for authenticating servers accessible through the
> > Internet. Similar requirements for code signing, S/MIME,
> > time-stamping, VoIP, IM, Web services, etc. may be covered in future versions."
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to replace the above text with the following:
> >
> > "This version of the Baseline Requirements addresses all root,
> > intermediate, and end entity certificates that can be used in
> > publicly-trusted SSL handshakes. All root and intermediate
> > certificates included in a browser's trust store and all end entity
> > certificates containing an extended key usage extension of Server
> > Authentication (1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1) are expressly covered by these
> > requirements. Similar requirements for code signing, S/MIME,
> > time-stamping, VoIP, IM, Web services, etc. may be covered in future versions."
> >
> >
> >
> > I look forward to your comments.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public mailing list
> > Public at cabforum.org
> > https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public
> >
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> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. The State accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the electronic transmission of messages. .
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