[cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for non-revoked certificates.

Tue Nov 13 08:21:22 UTC 2012

Rick, Yngve

Yes, it can not make sense for an SSL cert, but depending on the policy, you can suspend it for any reason (I think it´s not working properly, for example). And this certificate is onhold so it means that can be resume and back it to "good". Of course, when it´s revoked, it can not be unrevoked.

Iñigo Barreira
Responsable del Área técnica
i-barreira at izenpe.net
945067705

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-----Mensaje original-----
De: public-bounces at cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] En nombre de Yngve N. Pettersen (Developer Opera Software ASA)
Enviado el: jueves, 08 de noviembre de 2012 18:36
Para: public at cabforum.org
Asunto: Re: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for non-revoked certificates.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 18:16:36 +0100, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews at symantec.com> wrote:

> Erwann, Iñigo,
>
> I definitely see the utility of suspend and resume for end-user 
> certificates in smart cards. I don’t think it makes sense for SSL 
> certs, but I don’t feel strongly about it.
>
> I was under the impression that certs couldn’t be unrevoked and I 
> thought everyone had that impression, but I stand corrected. Thanks,

Please note that Ballot 93 (approved yesterday) says that a certificate covered by the BR cannot be unrevoked.

Issue 21, sec 13.2.7

>
> From: i-barreira at izenpe.net [mailto:i-barreira at izenpe.net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:31 AM
> To: erwann.abalea at keynectis.com; Rick Andrews
> Cc: public at cabforum.org
> Subject: RE: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for 
> non-revoked certificates.
>
> Rick,
>
> Erwann is right. For example, we don´t have deltaCRLs, only fullCRLs 
> and allow suspension and reactivation. Once the certificate is 
> suspended, we generate a new CRL (so, it means it´s revoked and you 
> can see the
> reason) and the OCSP says is revoked. When you actívate it again, a 
> new CRL is created and you don´t see this cert and the OCSP says good.
>
> A practical example, one citizen calls saying he can´t find his 
> smartcard so ask for suspension, so a period time is allowed, for 
> example 15 days, to find it (after that time the certificate can be 
> automatically revoked) but if he finds the smartcard in the couch or 
> in another wallet, etc. then he can calls the CA back (or use another
> procedure) and say, hey, I found it, can you actívate it back? And 
> that´s it.
> Other example can be when delivering the smartcards to the users by 
> post, this can be done in suspended mode (the certs are issued in 
> suspended mode or just turn into suspend mode after being issued or 
> whatever procedure has been implemented), then when the user receives 
> the card and also the pin and puk, so can call to actívate it or use a 
> web application or whatever mechanish the TSP has adopted.
>
> regards
>
>
> Iñigo Barreira
> Responsable del Área técnica
> i-barreira at izenpe.net<mailto:i-barreira at izenpe.net>
> 945067705
>
> [cid:image001.png at 01CDBD91.B6D173E0]
> ERNE! Baliteke mezu honen zatiren bat edo mezu osoa legez babestuta 
> egotea. Mezua badu bere hartzailea. Okerreko helbidera heldu bada 
> (helbidea gaizki idatzi, transmisioak huts egin) eman abisu igorleari, 
> korreo honi erantzuna. KONTUZ!
> ATENCION! Este mensaje contiene informacion privilegiada o 
> confidencial a la que solo tiene derecho a acceder el destinatario. Si 
> usted lo recibe por error le agradeceriamos que no hiciera uso de la 
> informacion y que se pusiese en contacto con el remitente.
>
> De: public-bounces at cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] 
> En nombre de Erwann ABALEA Enviado el: miércoles, 07 de noviembre de 
> 2012 23:08
> Para: Rick Andrews
> CC: public at cabforum.org
> Asunto: Re: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for 
> non-revoked certificates.
>
> Bonsoir Rick,
>
> If you don't allow resumption, then the certificate status stays 
> revoked with certificateHold reason.
>
> If you allow resumption but don't offer deltaCRLs, then you can't 
> express this resumption (i.e. explicitely tell the certificate is now 
> in a removeFromCRL state). But the certificate isn't revoked anymore 
> and disappears from the complete CRL.
>
> Nothing in the RFC or X.509 forbids suspension of certificates in 
> complete CRLs. X.509 is again more clear on how to deal with it, 
> here's an excerpt of clause 8.5.2.2 (200811 edition):
>
> -----
>
> Once a hold has been issued, it may be handled in one of three ways:
>
> a) it may remain on the CRL with no further action, causing users to 
> reject transactions issued during the hold period; or,
>
> b) it may be replaced by a (final) revocation for the same 
> certificate, in which case the reason shall be one of the standard 
> reasons for revocation, the revocation date shall be the date the 
> certificate was placed on hold, and the optional instruction code 
> extension field shall not appear; or,
>
> c) it may be explicitly released and the entry removed from the CRL.
> -----
>
> Just after follows the description and use-case of removeFromCRL 
> reason code.
>
> (this email will be rejected by cabfpub because I'm not posting from 
> work, can you manually forward it, please?)
>
> 2012/11/7 Rick Andrews
> <Rick_Andrews at symantec.com<mailto:Rick_Andrews at symantec.com>>
> Erwann,
>
> I agree that resumption (removeFromCRL) is allowed only in delta CRLs, 
> but I don’t understand your interpretation of the RFC. If you’re using 
> full CRLs and you allow suspension but not resumption, then either
>
> (a)    The cert must must remain suspended until it expires, or
>
> (b)   The cert status can change from suspended (certificateHold) to  
> valid
>
> If (a), why use certificateHold at all? Why not use one of the other 
> revocation reasons?
> If (b), it seems that most people who have commented in this thread 
> believe that should not be allowed.
>
> -Rick
>
> From: public-bounces at cabforum.org<mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org>
> [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org<mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org
> >]
> On Behalf Of Erwann Abalea
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:53 AM
> To: public at cabforum.org<mailto:public at cabforum.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for 
> non-revoked certificates.
>
> Resumption is necessary in deltaCRLs, and is only allowed in deltaCRLs.
> Suspension is allowed in every type of CRLs.
> We produce deltaCRLs for some CAs but no public one.
>
> --
>
> Erwann ABALEA
>
>
> Le 07/11/2012 19:25, Rick Andrews a écrit :
> When I looked at the RFC some time ago, it seemed that suspension and 
> resumption were only allowed in delta CRLs. I don’t know of any CAs or 
> browsers that support delta CRLs.
>
> -Rick
>
> From: public-bounces at cabforum.org<mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org>
> [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] On Behalf Of 
> i-barreira at izenpe.net<mailto:i-barreira at izenpe.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 12:52 AM
> To: eddy_nigg at startcom.org<mailto:eddy_nigg at startcom.org>;
> public at cabforum.org<mailto:public at cabforum.org>
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for 
> non-revoked certificates.
>
> On the CRL you can suspend a certificate (the response is revoked) and 
> turned it back to a good status and this is perfectly valid.
>
>
> Iñigo Barreira
> Responsable del Área técnica
> i-barreira at izenpe.net<mailto:i-barreira at izenpe.net>
> 945067705
>
> [cid:image001.png at 01CDBD91.B6D173E0]
> ERNE! Baliteke mezu honen zatiren bat edo mezu osoa legez babestuta 
> egotea. Mezua badu bere hartzailea. Okerreko helbidera heldu bada 
> (helbidea gaizki idatzi, transmisioak huts egin) eman abisu igorleari, 
> korreo honi erantzuna. KONTUZ!
> ATENCION! Este mensaje contiene informacion privilegiada o 
> confidencial a la que solo tiene derecho a acceder el destinatario. Si 
> usted lo recibe por error le agradeceriamos que no hiciera uso de la 
> informacion y que se pusiese en contacto con el remitente.
>
> De: public-bounces at cabforum.org<mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org>
> [mailto:public-bounces at cabforum.org] En nombre de Eddy Nigg (StartCom
> Ltd.)
> Enviado el: miércoles, 31 de octubre de 2012 21:45
> Para: public at cabforum.org<mailto:public at cabforum.org>
> Asunto: Re: [cabfpub] Fwd: [pkix] Straw-poll on OCSP responses for 
> non-revoked certificates.
>
>
> On 10/31/2012 10:32 PM, From Ben Wilson:
> If a modification of RFC 2560 allows an extension to change the 
> meaning of a “1” response to something else.  It was you who said 
> “[it] might be good, …, either due to migration and update time or 
> other reasons (out-of-sync cor whatever).”
>
> Yes, that's why I think using "Unknown" is the correct response and 
> not revoked for those. A revoked certificate can't be made valid ever 
> after as long as it hasn't expired. And "Unknown" != "Good".
>
> However once a certificate was marked as revoked, in my opinion a 
> client doesn't have to check again ever.
> Regards
>
>
>
> Signer:
>
> Eddy Nigg, COO/CTO
>
>
>
> StartCom Ltd.<http://www.startcom.org>
>
> XMPP:
>
> startcom at startcom.org<mailto:startcom at startcom.org>
>
> Blog:
>
> Join the Revolution!<http://blog.startcom.org>
>
> Twitter:
>
> Follow Me<http://twitter.com/eddy_nigg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> --
> Erwann.

--
Sincerely,
Yngve N. Pettersen
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