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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/10/2022 10:53 π.μ., Martijn
Katerbarg wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Dimitris, Doug,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Is there any reason why we wouldn’t want to
prohibit it for Root CA certificates and non-TLS Sub CA
Certificates?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Now maybe this is going in a direct where it
becomes part of version 2 of the profiles, but should we be
looking at which fields are being included at this moment
and make a more clear requirement on what’s allowed and
what’s not? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">With the language as it is proposed, it seems
that any subject attribute except for OU is allowed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">In my opinion it would be more desirable to add
a specific MAY for fields that CA’s are using and are deemed
acceptable, and find a path forward on setting Any Other
Attribute to MUST NOT</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Martijn,<br>
<br>
I agree with you that this should be the ultimate goal (add a
specific MAY for more fields, etc) but this would require more work
and discussion. I don't believe it can be added to the profiles
ballot as it would cause more delays.<br>
<br>
At the same time, there is already agreement to prohibit OU for
TLS-specific CAs that will cause no impact since it is not included
in CA Certificates since the cutoff date.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MW5PR17MB601253CE3B337C597A942160E3249@MW5PR17MB6012.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Validation
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:validation-bounces@cabforum.org"><validation-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Doug Beattie via Validation<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 13 October 2022 22:06<br>
<b>To:</b> Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a>; CA/Browser Forum Validation
SC List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org"><validation@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabf_validation] OU attribute in CA
Certificates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt
2.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">CAUTION:
This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the content is safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I’d lean towards you
option #2:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US">Update 7.1.2.10.2, add the
Attribute Type OU, and in the Presence column state
"MUST NOT," except for Non-TLS Subordinate CA
Certificates that meet the Certificate Profile described
in section 7.1.2.3".<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Just a suggestion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">Update 7.1.2.10.2, add the
Attribute Type OU, and in the Presence column state:<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">MUST NOT for TLS
Subordinate CA Certificates defined in section
7.1.2.3, <o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">SHOULD NOT for all other
CAs"<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Validation <<a
href="mailto:validation-bounces@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">validation-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
via Validation<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 13, 2022 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">validation@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cabf_validation] OU attribute in CA
Certificates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">[Moving this discussion to the validation
subcommittee]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 13/10/2022 5:36
μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Servercert-wg
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'd like to ask for
a few minutes to discuss about the OU attribute in CA
Certificates as described in <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fpull%2F394&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PB9Qq%2F8B5JDESNPMwJV0uNlgNMaNwHRb8YDGX1gCE38%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/pull/394</a>
so we can decide on next steps.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
Following up on todays SCWG call, I did a quick review at
the profiles ballot and unfortunately the current draft
describes 5 different CA Certificate profiles (actually
there is one more for Cross Certificates in <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237122-cross-certified-subordinate-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WeR8L7DOjeA7a7iM9Qrkz1SlxBVSUp%2B0bwx%2F9LozIOI%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.2</a> but that doesn't seem
to create any issues):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237121-root-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6CzFgTpYWVUG7jdcGcqlETJ2W%2BF97q2mqqamQt3eLUA%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.1 Root CA Certificate
Profile</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237123-technically-constrained-non-tls-subordinate-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fje0irQN3UlqUtvNX9LMwIPGEk%2Fd8BcaB6khnHL5a3o%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.3 Technically Constrained
Non-TLS Subordinate CA Certificate Profile</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237124-technically-constrained-precertificate-signing-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=in45vH0byYZGNPPc5E%2FlF%2Bv08bQttI%2BRf6ijRphnYbw%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.4 Technically Constrained
Precertificate Signing CA Certificate Profile</a> (we
should fix the internal broken link to this pointer in
section 7.1.2)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237125-technically-constrained-tls-subordinate-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wSiob5hiGnHqcQ3Zn%2F1pxCiCodv28GliCQPtgMa2FhY%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.5 Technically Constrained
TLS Subordinate CA Certificate Profile</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%237126-tls-subordinate-ca-certificate-profile&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FwcOXJnJpds1YwHo8IRYLne7W7jJPqTUpgf2KjhK1tY%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.6 TLS Subordinate CA
Certificate Profile</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">that all point to a
common section <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fservercert%2Fblob%2Fprofiles%2Fdocs%2FBR.md%23712102-ca-certificate-naming&data=05%7C01%7Cjacco.rens%40sectigo.com%7Cebc9d445838648f70d5008daad566518%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638012883815617803%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=X5qV3KU0biI2gfUhWZ63EWAUIWes2Qo8lTrg%2Br5wuAo%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">7.1.2.10.2</a> for the subjectDN
CA Certificate Naming. <br>
<br>
If we want to disallow OU in CA Certificates (new Roots
and Intermediates), shouldn't that only affect 7.1.2.5 and
7.1.2.6? I'm not sure about 7.1.2.4 as I am not so
familiar with Precertificate Signing CAs but it looks like
it needs to follow the "TLS CA" rules. If there is
agreement, here are some ways to tackle this problem:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo4"><span lang="EN-US">Rename 7.1.2.10.2 from "CA
Certificate Naming" to "TLS CA Certificate Naming", use
"MUST NOT" for the OU field, create a 7.1.2.10.3
"Non-TLS CA Certificate Naming" with exactly what's in
today's 7.1.2.10.2 and shift all sections at the same
level by one; or<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo4"><span lang="EN-US">Update 7.1.2.10.2, add the
Attribute Type OU, and in the Presence column state
"MUST NOT," except for Non-TLS Subordinate CA
Certificates that meet the Certificate Profile described
in section 7.1.2.3".<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Thoughts or other ideas?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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