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These are the Draft Minutes of the Teleconference described in the subject of this message as prepared by Aneta Wojtczak-Iwanicka (Microsoft).<br>
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<span style="margin:0px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="margin:0px; font-size:11pt">Please review the minutes and propose edits if necessary. These minutes will be considered for approval at the next meeting. The recording of the meeting will
be deleted once the minutes are approved.</span></span>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Attendees (in alphabetical order)</span></p>
<div style="margin:0px 0in; font-family:Calibri; color:rgb(32,31,30)"><span style="font-size:11.25pt"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">Amanda Mendieta, Andrea
Holland, Aneta Wojtczak, Ben Wilson, Bruce Morton, Clint Wilson, Corey Bonnell, Dimitris Zacharopoulos, Doug Beattie, Janet Hines, Joanna Fox, Kati Davids, Martjin Katerbarg, Paul van Brouwershaven, Rebecca Kelley, Ryan Dickson, Thomas Zermeno, Tim Hollebeek,
Trevoli Ponds-White, Wayne Thayer</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Agenda</span></p>
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<ol>
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">CRL validity period ballot (SC52)</span></li><li>Onion V2 address validation</li><li>CNAME delegation</li></ol>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Minutes</span></p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Preparation</span></p>
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<ul>
<li>The recording started</li><li>Roll call was taken by Tim</li><li>The antitrust statement was read by Tim</li><li>Minute taker was assigned (Aneta)</li></ul>
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CRL validity period ballot (SC52):</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; font-style:normal; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: SC52 did get reposted with the changes related to leap seconds that we got from the comments on the server certificate mailing list. I also added, in response to Dimitris</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; font-style:normal; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> email,
some text</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; font-style:normal; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> to the preamble
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; font-style:normal; color:rgb(0,0,0)">saying that the</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; font-style:normal; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> purpose of specifying thing in seconds is clarity and
it is not meant to imply anything about how important the particular time periods are. It is just providing additional clarity. I did just want to call out that the ballot is not intended to say that compliance with various periods like your audit report down
to the second is somehow more important that it was before this version. It is neither more or less important. It is just making it absolutely clear what is compliant and what is not compliant. It is up to the Root programs to guide what they care about, how
much they care about individual violations and what they do about that.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: I do not really think it addresses the issue. I think it makes it a little worse because the Root programs can then interpret this statement
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">arbitrarily<span> </span></span>and the CA wouldn't know if missing a deadline by a few seconds is critical in one Root program and not critical in another root program. So, in my opinion
unless we resolve it in a very clear and concise language, we may need to probably remove that part.</span><br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: I would argue we are in that world today, Dimitri. The Root programs are able to do what I said, and it is up to them how they enforce things. The only difference between where we are
today is, where we are today it is unclear exactly what the endpoint is on those periods that are left poorly specified and after the changes to measure them in seconds for better or worse you know exactly down to the seconds what the proper time period is.
The ballot does not change anything about how the standards should be enforced. If we want to go further and put some specific language in the BRs about that sort of thing, we could, but this is beyond the scope of the current ballot.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: I can just add a proposal for 1.6.4 addition that says "a difference of 3600 seconds shall be equal to one hour". If we really want this to be just a guidance, then we should try
to remove confusing language like "shall be". The "shall be here" is following the technical language of the the BRs. If we want it to be a guidance, then we should try to remove confusing language like "shall be", "it is expected to be", " it intended to
be" to be more descriptive.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: That's why I put the "no more no less important" because I wanted to avoid what you are saying - the idea that by making the requirement clear about what is or is not allowed, I do not
want to change it to "this is just guidance". It was previously a requirement, it is an absolute requirement it is not the guidance. It is an absolute requirement with an unclear end date. There was some dispute over what end dates are and are not compliant
for this various time periods. We see all different bugs filed that this or that is missed by a second, we need a clarity on what the requirement is and that clarity on what the requirement is, in no way changes the enforcement of the requirement. This is
what I was trying to say in preamble, this just provides absolute clarity about how to calculate day/time differences.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">It does not in any way change anything about the importance of being compliant with those requirements.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: For CRLs and OCSP it is very clear that 1 second accuracy is expected and that's undeniable. I just want to understand if we were to remove the sentence in 1.6.4 would it jeopardized
that accuracy for CRL and OCSP?</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: This is an interesting point to talk about, as this is actually the thing we're disagreeing on. You would prefer something that is scoped to OCSP and CRL. Is that correct?</span></p>
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Dimitris: Yes</p>
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Tim: The reason I would prefer to not to do that is because I do not want to have to come back and do it periodically for every date that is in the BRs. I would prefer consistent rules across the entire BRs about how you are calculating time periods and all
the deadlines.</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Going through the BRs and EV guidelines and finding all dates and duration and having to match whether they meet this definition is a ton of work for no clear benefit.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: If the majority of people want to go into other direction, I would be fine with changing it. It is just not my preference.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Clint: I tend to agree with you Tim just having this out of the way and clarified seems worthwhile.</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">If there are misunderstandings of certain sections in the future those can be changed but this way, we have a baseline that is consistent, and I doubt that there will be much to change
in the future as if we narrowly scope it there will be more ballots in the future on this topic.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Unless we have another person on the call to give us their point of view what they would expect from OCSP and how their CA would have to prove that they comply with this requirement
for every single date duration.</span><br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Clint: It seems that it is easy to comply by being lower than the upper bound by some significant margin.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: The problem is that the tools that are out there whenever you need to schedule something, and that was exactly the reason why I switched from a specific number of days in Network
security requirements to months was preciously to avoid that. For example, you calculate that you need to execute a script once a month at the first day of every month, sometimes it will be 31 days sometimes 30 and that is ok, but if you want to be precise
to the days it creates difficulties in many different systems. It is not easy to fix that.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Clint: I am not clear of what those difficulties would be, so it would be worth listing out or clarifying more where are the challenges with days vs months specificity.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: I can get some more feedback from my team and share that with the group.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: That would be useful. This was the initial concern of mine as well that there are unexpected consequences that we are going end up regretting. We looked into it and our analysis showed
what Clint said: if</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> you are already a little bit conservative with your compliance dates just to avoid situations when somebody is out for a day and you miss something (set something
for 4 weeks instead of month). Little tweaks like this can help you out. If they are counter examples, please share them.</span><br>
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Onion V2 address validation:</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Onion version 2 addresses are no longer acceptable. Maybe it is worth to work on a ballot to deprecate that and maybe it is an opportunity to fix all the other onion issues that we
have open on GitHub.</span><br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: it is a good idea. There are still a very large companies that are using v2 addresses I am not entirely sure why. We can try to reach out to them and see if we can get some more feedback
on why v2 onions are still in use.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: we can prepare a ballot that phases out version 2 and if there are legitimate use cases out there that would help in the deprecation timeline, we can certainly fix that and take this
into account.</span><br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: Yes, we are going to reach out to them and get some more information and we will provide feedback to the group why these are still out there and if this is just a matter of a transition
that has not completed yet or what is going on. We will get some clarity on why they still exist.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: OK, great.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: You mentioned a couple of the other issues. Do you know specifically of top of your head the ones you were thinking of?</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Yes, I looked at the open issues and there are challenges about CAA requirements. What would be the CAA requirements for the onion addresses? It is more of a clarification on the
CAA section. For example Onions are not real DNS addresses, so we need to tweak the language so that they are excluded, or I am not sure how we are going to fix that. Ryan Sleevi, I think recommended some language there. So, it is a good opportunity to catch
all these onion issues. I think there are about 7 issues open regarding Onion and we can tackle them all together or separately.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: You are right. It may be worth tackling them all at the same time and no have to come back there on a regular basis.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wayne: I want to change a subject and ask about CNAME delegation.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: I still owe text on that as well.</span><br>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Just before changing the subject, will anyone else be interested in working with me on a ballot for the onion stuff?</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wayne: I would be happy to help with that Dimitris.</span><br>
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</p>
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CNAME delegation:</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: CNAME delegation - I owe text on this I should give it out to the list today because I am off on vacation starting tomorrow</span><span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">.
So, thank you reminding me about that one.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wayne: Ok great, I am looking forward to seeing that so let me know if I can help with that.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: Maybe you and Corey can run with that when I am out.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wayne: You mean propose the text or you mean you will propose the text and then we will take it further.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: I will propose text and then you guys can take it from there.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wayne: Ok, great.</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Corey: Dimitris, if you want in addition to Wayne someone else to work with in addition on the tor ballot, I will be happy to do that as well.</span><br>
</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dimitris: Fantastic.</span><br>
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</p>
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Tim: Anything else to discuss today?</p>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Tim: Next meeting is on December 16th.</span><br>
</p>
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</p>
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Meeting adjourned.</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
Thanks,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin:0in; font-family:Calibri; font-size:11.0pt">
Aneta</p>
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