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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/2021 6:34 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWvZzBc80xm3F_dRt8PgRAc2=W6A-VRxfjXfz43b0ZiDT2w@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 4:41
            AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Validation <<a
              href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">validation@cabforum.org</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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            <div> Whether NC is REQUIRED or not for a non-TLS subCA (a
              Certificate with basicConstraints cA:true and EKU
              extension with KeyPurposeID that DOES NOT include <span
style="color:rgba(0,0,0,0.87);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">anyExtendedKeyUsage<span>
                </span></span>or <span
style="color:rgba(0,0,0,0.87);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">id-kp-serverAuth</span>)
              to be considered "Technically Constrained", has been
              clarified at least in the <a
href="https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.dev.security.policy/c/f5-URPoNarI/m/PVdH28BFAAAJ"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Mozilla Root
                Program since 2016</a>. It is not required.<br>
              <br>
              In fact, HARICA was reading 7.1.5 in the very strict way
              that Ryan is suggesting, and our first Technically
              Constrained subCAs, even those that only had the
              KeyPurposeId of id-kp-emailProtection, ALSO had a NC
              extension with denied subtrees for dNSName and IPAddress
              values. After discussions with the Mozilla Root store
              Managers, it was determined that it was not necessary to
              add the NC if the subCA had an EKU extension and did not
              have the id-kp-serverAuth or the anyEKU KeyPurposeId for
              them to be considered Technically Constrained.<br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I'm not sure I understand your reply here.</div>
          <div><br>
            Are you trying to say that CAs are free to ignore the BRs if
            one root program says so?</div>
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    <br>
    No. I am saying that it's a reasonable interpretation of the current
    BRs and that a subCA that contains an EKU without id-kp-serverAuth
    or anyEKU should be considered technically constrained because it
    cannot create a valid TLS end-entity certificate. Or, put
    differently, even if a TLS end-entity certificate is issued, it
    should not validate successfully because of the EKU chaining
    restrictions.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWvZzBc80xm3F_dRt8PgRAc2=W6A-VRxfjXfz43b0ZiDT2w@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div>I can understand wanting to talk about what the _future_
            requirements should say, but I think the context of what the
            _current_ requirements require is relevant here, since the
            concern is the profiles expressing that requirement.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I am talking about the current requirements.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWvZzBc80xm3F_dRt8PgRAc2=W6A-VRxfjXfz43b0ZiDT2w@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div><br>
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          <div>You will note, for example, that the profiles work is
            trying to relax this and actually allow the EKU-or-NC. </div>
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    <br>
    If the SCWG is looking it from the server TLS point of view,
    "technically constrained" should focus on the technical capabilities
    of validating a trust path that would enable a <b>server TLS</b>
    end-entity certificate. In the attempt to describe the profiles for
    TLS and non-TLS issuing CAs, and as the certificate profiles work is
    trying to clarify, for the first case we should need both EKU
    (serverAuth) and NC, while for the non-TLS we should constrain with
    just the EKU (must not include serverAuth or anyEKU).<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWvZzBc80xm3F_dRt8PgRAc2=W6A-VRxfjXfz43b0ZiDT2w@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div>However, it's still requiring that, even if a distinct
            EKU is present, because it's issued from a BR CA, the
            certificates the BR CA issues need to be well-formed. </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I support this statement. The certificate that is signed by a Root
    subject to the BRs must be well-formed. I was commenting on whether
    the NC extension is required or not for a non-TLS issuing CA. If a
    CA chooses to add a NC, it should be well-formed according to
    RFC5280.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWvZzBc80xm3F_dRt8PgRAc2=W6A-VRxfjXfz43b0ZiDT2w@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div>That seems to have some concern raised, by Corey, and
            that's why we're trying to resolve, by making sure we have a
            correct understanding about what the BRs require, so that we
            can make sure that the profiles work is properly seen as
            strictly relaxing, not adding new restrictions.</div>
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    <br>
    Totally onboard with that which is why I am sharing these thoughts
    and past experience on this topic.<br>
    <br>
    Dimitris.<br>
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