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    <p><font face="Calibri">Hi </font>Martijn<font face="Calibri">,</font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri">I appreciate your concern, but would not the
        same concern also arise with a digital signature made with an
        eIDAS qualified certificate?<br>
      </font></p>
    <p>Anyway, it could be addressed by setting a time limit after which
      re-validation by other means (to be specified) must be done, as
      you suggest.</p>
    <p>Regards</p>
    <p>Adriano</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 13/05/2024 15:53, Martijn Katerbarg
      ha scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SA1PR17MB6503BBDAAB7B5421DAFFFF9CE3E22@SA1PR17MB6503.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Hi Adriano,<br>
            <br>
            My immediate concern would be the scenario where say in 2024
            someone gets an S/MIME IV certificate issued based on
            current validation practices. Then in 2 years time, they
            renew based on their existing S/MIME certificate. Then in
            another two years, again, and yet again. Soon, we’ll be 10
            years since the original validation took place, and ever
            since then the CA has relied upon an existing S/MIME
            certificate (or CA’s, if the Subscriber is switching to a
            different vendor) without any additional verification. <br>
            <br>
            Additionally, currently there’s no requirement to indicate
            in an SV certificate if an Enterprise RA was used or not. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">The second item could be solved by adding an
            indicator for that into the certificate (See <a
              href="https://github.com/cabforum/smime/issues/12"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/smime/issues/12</a>),
            but I’m not sure how we’d solve the second one, and I’d be
            very hesitant on supporting something like that, without a
            proper time limit in place at which point re-validation
            would need to occur. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
          <div>
            <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                    style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
                  style="color:black">Smcwg-public
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> on behalf of
                  Adriano Santoni via Smcwg-public
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Monday, 13 May 2024 at 15:32<br>
                  <b>To: </b>SMIME Certificate Working Group
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>[Smcwg-public] Allowing a signature
                  made with an S/MIME IV or SV certificate as an
                  additional individual identity validation method<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
                  This email originated from outside of the
                  organization. Do not click links or open attachments
                  unless you recognize the sender and know the content
                  is safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi
                  all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
                  already made the following proposal previously, both
                  in writing here on the mailing list and also verbally
                  during the last call (at the very last minutes as it
                  was not on the agenda, sorry), but I don't see it
                  mentioned in the call minutes of May 8 below, so I'll
                  try to propose it again. <br>
                  <br>
                  Among the methods for the "Validation of individual
                  identity" (SMBR 3.2.4.2), as part of the validation
                  process of a request for an S/MIME IV certificate (or
                  an SV certificate, where there is no Enterprise RA
                  involved), I think it would make sense to admit - in
                  addition to a digital signature based on an eIDAS
                  compliant qualified certificate - also a digital
                  signature based on another S/MIME IV or SV
                  (BR-compliant) certificate of the applicant. This
                  seems quite logical to me considering the rigor
                  inherent in the validation requirements already
                  established by the S/MIME BR to date. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">At
                  least in the case of <i>renewal</i>, I think it would
                  be completely logical and safe to accept a request
                  signed by the applicant with his/her current S/MIME IV
                  or SV certificate (the one soon to expire) without the
                  need to perform a further "verification of individual
                  identity" with other methods. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If
                  this idea for some reason doesn't seem practical or
                  useful or safe enough, I'd like someone to explain
                  their objections or concerns.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank
                  you all for your attention.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Adriano</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Il 11/05/2024 22:02, Stephen
                  Davidson via Smcwg-management ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <div align="center">
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                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span
                              style="color:red">NOTICE:</span><span
                              style="color:black"> Pay attention -
                              external email - Sender is <a
href="mailto:0100018f693fd56b-e31b4721-c8ba-4ae7-a5bb-de9b42be70ce-000000@amazonses.com"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">0100018f693fd56b-e31b4721-c8ba-4ae7-a5bb-de9b42be70ce-000000@amazonses.com</a>
                            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0cm;text-align:center;line-height:normal"
                  align="center"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">##
                    Minutes of SMCWG<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">May 8,
                    2024<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">These
                    are the Draft Minutes of the meeting described in
                    the subject of this message. Corrections and
                    clarifications where needed are encouraged by reply.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">##
                    Attendees<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">Abhishek
                    Bhat - (eMudhra), Adriano Santoni - (Actalis
                    S.p.A.), Aggie Wang - (TrustAsia), Andrea Holland -
                    (VikingCloud), Ashish Dhiman - (GlobalSign), Ben
                    Wilson - (Mozilla), Bruce Morton - (Entrust), Clint
                    Wilson - (Apple), Corey Bonnell - (DigiCert),
                    Dimitris Zacharopoulos - (HARICA), Inaba Atsushi -
                    (GlobalSign), Inigo Barreira - (Sectigo), Janet
                    Hines - (VikingCloud), Judith Spencer - (CertiPath),
                    Keshava Nagaraju - (eMudhra), Marco Schambach -
                    (IdenTrust), Martijn Katerbarg - (Sectigo), Morad
                    Abou Nasser - (TeleTrust), Mrugesh Chandarana -
                    (IdenTrust), Nome Huang - (TrustAsia), Rebecca Kelly
                    - (SSL.com), Renne Rodriguez - (Apple), Rollin Yu -
                    (TrustAsia), Scott Rea - (eMudhra), Stefan
                    Selbitschka - (rundQuadrat), Stephen Davidson -
                    (DigiCert), Tadahiko Ito - (SECOM Trust Systems),
                    Tathan Thacker - (IdenTrust), Tsung-Min Kuo -
                    (Chunghwa Telecom), Wendy Brown - (US Federal PKI
                    Management Authority)<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 1.
                    Roll Call<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">The
                    Roll Call was taken.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 2.
                    Read Antitrust Statement<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">The
                    statement was read concerning the antitrust policy,
                    code of conduct, and intellectual property rights
                    agreement.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 3.
                    Review Agenda<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">Minutes
                    were prepared by Stephen Davidson.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 4.
                    Approval of minutes from last teleconference<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">The
                    minutes for the teleconference of April 24 were
                    approved.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 5.
                    Discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Stephen Davidson noted that
                    Ballot SMC06 was in IPR until May 11. See <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.cabforum.org%2Fpipermail%2Fsmcwg-public%2F2024-April%2F000957.html&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C708f7bd916fb456126ba08dc73512026%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638512039511762331%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BHKcC9wi8xSZNIvCbF96gxjYbCI1d3s1SwRCdNpXMQw%3D&reserved=0"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/smcwg-public/2024-April/000957.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">The WG discussed and approved the
                    change of KeyFactor from an Interested Party to an
                    Associate Member, Ellie Schieder as an Interested
                    Party, and Posteo e.K as a Certificate Consumer.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">The WG reviewed and discussed a
                    ballot proposed by Martijn Katerbarg which would
                    bring the S/MIME BR up to date with a recent ballot
                    at the TLS BR for logging.   See more at <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fsmime%2Fissues%2F241&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C708f7bd916fb456126ba08dc73512026%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638512039511777400%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zsu0bwRhIDoxPPlahVUlbI%2B%2FU7VdcyIjSfYHixo1JAk%3D&reserved=0"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/smime/issues/241</a>
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">The WG had an extensive
                    discussion regarding the migration to
                    Multipurpose/Strict profiles.  Stephen noted that so
                    far only two points had been raised by Certificate
                    Issuers:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                      style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">Having
                      adequate time (such as one year) to allow ERAs
                      using integration time to adapt.<o:p></o:p></li>
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                      style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">Concerns
                      relating to the impact of shorter validity on
                      deployments using tokens/smartcards.<o:p></o:p></li>
                  </ul>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">Judith
                    Spencer and Wendy Brown commented that the shorter
                    validity had real impact on large (including public
                    sector) deployments that use tokens/smartcards,
                    including:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">limited
                      storage on tokens/smartcards;<o:p></o:p></li>
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">the
                      increased burden of key exchange; and<o:p></o:p></li>
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">and
                      the costs of support for rekeying.<o:p></o:p></li>
                  </ul>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">The
                    question was raised whether it would be feasible to
                    increase the validity for the Multipurpose profile
                    to 1185 days in general, or in cases where
                    tokens/smartcards are used.  Clint Wilson spoke
                    about the security and crypto agility benefits of
                    shorter validity periods.  It was agreed this topic
                    would be continued in Bergamo.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 6.
                    Any Other Business<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">None.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">## 7.
                    Next call<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">Next
                    call:  the teleconference scheduled for May 22 has
                    been cancelled. Next meeting is Bergamo F2F.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm">##
                    Adjourned<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Smcwg-management mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a href="mailto:Smcwg-management@cabforum.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Smcwg-management@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.cabforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsmcwg-management&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C708f7bd916fb456126ba08dc73512026%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638512039511787973%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jyn4cbSuAbphPNeqicGutRFnz8pdQU98ccl8W0GxW8Q%3D&reserved=0"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/smcwg-management</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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