<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Adriano, sorry again to you and the group for spamming with non-sense.<div><br></div><div>Not your English, but it’s me not reading properly and the “OV” terminology did mislead me for some reason.<div><br></div><div>Anyhow, I’d be in agreement with what Dimitris just said. We can have the role of a “representative” of the company that uses their individual email and as long is validated, it should be OK, even if the validation method is other than 3.2.2.2</div><div><br></div><div>BR/P</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 18 Sep 2023, at 09:21, Adriano Santoni <adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div><p><font face="Calibri">Pedro,</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">I am not sure why, but it seems you are
completely misunderstanding what I am writing here.</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">I am not talking about TLS certs. Of course
I am referring to S/MIME certificates. <br>
</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">You might have noticed I said "</font>S/MIME<font face="Calibri">" in my first mail....<br>
</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">Maybe my English needs some improvement....
:(</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">Adriano<br>
</font></p><p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 18/09/2023 09:07, Pedro FUENTES ha
scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:C2FFE430-1664-45C2-9B86-396D6FFE1842@wisekey.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
HI Adriano,
<div>Sorry, as this is the SM WG I thought you were referring to
S/MIME certificates, not to TLS certs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rule of thumbs that CAs must ensure that any identity
information included in a certificate is validated. In
particular… latest version of the BR say in 7.1.2.7.4 that the
email is “Not Recommended”, and the referenced section 7.1.4.4
says that it’s required to “Ensure that the contents contain
information that has been verified by the CA, independent of the
Applicant”.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Therefore, it shouldn't happen that a CA includes an email
that has not been verified… assuming that the email is still
permitted, which I understand is not if we apply the “default
deny” thing here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Pedro<br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 18 Sep 2023, at 08:25, Adriano Santoni via
Smcwg-public <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<meta charset="UTF-8"><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Calibri">Hi Pedro,</font></p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Calibri">I think you didn't get what I mean
(Jochem did). I wasn't referring to the domain part
but rather the local part of the email address. To
give an example, I don't see any problem in an OV cert
that contains an email address of the type<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ExampleLtd@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" moz-do-not-send="true">ExampleLtd@gmail.com</a>,
although obviously<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://gmail.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" moz-do-not-send="true">gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a Google
domain and not of Example Ltd., while I am a bit
perplexed by an OV cert issued for Example Ltd.
containing an email address of the type<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Name.Surname@example.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" moz-do-not-send="true">Name.Surname@example.com</a>,
especially without knowing whether this address was
validated with the BR method 3.2.2.1 (via domain)
rather than 3.2.2.2 (via email). In the second case,
the applicant demonstrated that he/she only controls
the Name.Surname mailbox, but applied for an OV cert
which (email aside) contains his/her company's
identity; these two things don't seem to go together
well, somehow, IMO.<br>
</font></p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Calibri">Regards<br>
Adriano</font></p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Il
16/09/2023 09:27, Pedro FUENTES ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:88121FEE-1744-4995-9F04-4F5986355157@wisekey.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">We should maybe just understand that
there are companies that don’t have a corporate mail
service. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">IMHO… Once the mailbox is validated,
the domain component is not relevant. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Le 16 sept. 2023 à 07:23,
Adriano Santoni via Smcwg-public<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" moz-do-not-send="true"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a écrit :<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p><font face="Calibri">Hi Jochem,</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">thanks for sharing your
thoughts; as you say, they don't answer my
question, but they do add useful insight.</font></p><p><font face="Calibri">Adriano</font></p><p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 15/09/2023 17:17,
Berge, Jochem Van den ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:51e1e4caf16c412194fff03779420d29@logius.nl">
<div align="center">
<table width="30%" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffff00"><span style="color: red;">NOTICE:</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Pay
attention - external email - Sender is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:prvs=615b3b199=jochem.vanden.berge@logius.nl" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">prvs=615b3b199=jochem.vanden.berge@logius.nl</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi
Adriano,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">I’ve gone over the SBRGs and
reading section 3.2.2 of the SBRGs I think
you might have a point that it is not
defined in the SBRG:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">This section defines the
permitted processes and procedures for
confirming the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Applicant’s<o:p></o:p></b></span></i></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">control</span></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">of Mailbox Addresses to be
included in issued Certificates.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">As far as I can see, if the
Applicant (or it’s representative) can
demonstrate control over the mailbox in
question it looks like it is allowed.
Other entries in section 3 or in section 7
are mute on this point.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">If you look at TLS
certificates the relation between the
(owner of a) FQDN and the organization
included in the certificate can be (and
often is) different (provided the
applicant can prove to have control over
the FQDN).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">The same kind of mechanic
could apply here. I think it boils down to
if it ever was the intent to derive any
identifying information from an email
address or only use it for a cryptographic
link (like TLS)?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">If the decision would be that
the email address should have some
identifying properties I just realized
that except for the obvious cases (like
the one you addressed) it is very
difficult to put such a requirement into
words. What would be the definition of an
organization controlled email address? And
how would a CA be able to check that it
is? The example you list of sole
proprietorships can also be tricky to
check by a CA, and potentially opens up a
can of worms.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Long story short, my take is
that it is possible and that isn’t
something we can easily fix. I think it
boils down to a more fundamental choice of
what the intent is of the different types
of profiles as defined in the SBRGs.
Seeing that I wasn’t involved with the
earliest beginning of this WG I can’t
answer that question but I hope that other
can shed some light on it</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">J</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kind
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Jochem
van den Berge<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Architect
PKIoverheid<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(83, 129, 53);" lang="EN-GB">Logius<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Digital Government Service<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Ministry of the Interior
and Kingdom Relations<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">........................................................................<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">M</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">(+31) (0)6 – 21 16 26 89<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">T </span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">(+31) (0)70 - 888 76 91<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="mailto:jochem.vanden.berge@logius.nl" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" lang="FR">jochem.vanden.berge@logius.nl</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" lang="FR"><br>
</span></u><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.logius.nl/" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" lang="FR">www.logius.nl</span></a></span><u><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></u></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR">workdays Mo-Tue & Thu-Fri<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">........................................................................<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>Van:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Namens</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Adriano
Santoni via Smcwg-public<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vrijdag
15 september 2023 06:55<br>
<b>Aan:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Smcwg-public]
Individual email addresses in OV certs<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><p>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p><p>given that an S/MIME OV certificate is
characterized by the fact that it conveys
the identity of an organization, it is
acceptable for an OV certificate to contain
an email address that is clearly associated
with an individual mailbox (e.g.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:name.surname@companydomain.tld" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">name.surname@companydomain.tld</a>)
? <o:p></o:p></p><p>If I'm not mistaken, this aspect is not
touched on in the BR and it therefore seems
reasonable to assume that the above case is
permitted. However, the fact that the
Applicant only controls an individual email
address somehow feels "inappropriate" for an
OV certificate, so to say. <o:p></o:p></p><p>It seems okay for sole proprietorships, but
in other cases (legal persons with several
employees) it seems inconsistent.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Maybe the answer is already there, in the
BR, but I cannot see it.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Any comments welcome.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Adriano<o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;"><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: 11px;"><b>Pedro Fuentes<br></b>CSO - Trust Services Manager</span><br><font size="1">Office: + 41 (0) 22 594 30 00<br>Mobile: + 41 (0) </font></font><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: x-small; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">791 274 790</span></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; 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