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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=DE link="#0563C1" vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hey Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>in a first step, pseudonyms could be allowed in sponsored profiles. From an external point of view, those entities have the same accepted validation level as certificates with an organisation profile as the organisation is properly validated anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Smcwg-public <smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 10. März 2022 12:25<br><b>An:</b> Juan Ángel Martín <martin_ja@camerfirma.com>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <smcwg-public@cabforum.org><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 10/3/2022 1:14 μ.μ., Juan Ángel Martín wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Dimitris,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>One use case of pseudonyms that I know of is the need for the police to sign certain messages, e.g. traffic tickets, with a qualified eIDAS certificate.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But the police officers do not want their name, surname and personal identification document number to appear on the certificate, which signs the traffic ticket for unavoidable legal reasons in Europe.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think it would be desirable to give an answer to this need in the CABF requirements for SMIME certificates.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br>Thank you Juan Ángel,<br><br>We all agree with the end goal but we can't address the concerns without answering some questions regarding the validation process. For example, what do those traffic tickets look like in terms of the signer? Does it only have a random identifier as described in the 2nd bullet of my previous letter? Does it say something like "Officer John"? It is important to get some transparency on this so the SMCWG can develop validation rules that would support this feature.<br><br><br>Best regards,<br>Dimitris.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Juan Ángel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>De:</b> Smcwg-public <a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>En nombre de </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public<br><b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 10 de marzo de 2022 10:40<br><b>Para:</b> Wiedenhorst, Matthias <a href="mailto:M.Wiedenhorst@tuvit.de"><M.Wiedenhorst@tuvit.de></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Matthias,<br><br>This is indeed a legal requirement in eIDAS and we need to see its applicability for S/MIME certificates.<br><br>The problem we need to address is the fact that I can validate myself to a CA with my physical presence and my official name (Dimitrios Zacharopoulos), and ask for a Pseudonym to be included in the certificate, but the process is unclear. Here are some questions/concerns (not addressed explicitly to Matthias, anyone can chime-in): <o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Could I ask that my pseudonym is "Matthias Wiedenhorst" or "Mickey Mouse"? How is THAT information validated so that it is not misleading to Relying Parties?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Can the pseudonym be a name/value that the CA decides, e.g. "Pseudonym-482733812"? How is that helpful for Relying Parties?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Can a Relying Party ask the CA to reveal the real identity of the person behind the pseudonym? If this is the case, how is this protecting the real person for being in danger?<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Thanks,<br>Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 10/3/2022 9:05 π.μ., Wiedenhorst, Matthias via Smcwg-public wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi all!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Article 5 (2) eIDAS reads:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>“Without prejudice to the legal effect given to pseudonyms under national law, the use of pseudonyms in electronic transactions shall not be prohibited.”</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I am not a lawyer, but to me it sounds as if prohibiting pseudonyms could cause problems within the EU.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Legitimate use cases that I have heard of from different CAs are for example persons from the “law enforcement area” that are in danger to be threatened or even attacked in their private live when their full real name is known.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As already pointed out, a pseudonym certificate is not an anonymous certificate, but only the CA is able to reveal identity. Identification of the person has to be performed identically as if a certificate without pseudonym would be issued.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Matthias</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Smcwg-public <a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Stephen Davidson via Smcwg-public<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 9. März 2022 15:34<br><b>An:</b> Pedro FUENTES <a href="mailto:pfuentes@WISEKEY.COM"><pfuentes@WISEKEY.COM></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a>; Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In general, the CA is supposed to validate the true identity of a holder behind a subject:pseudonym. This is different from an anonymous cert.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>The difficulty we face is that, having chosen to require Subject identity information to be verified, it would be inconsistent to allow the freeform use of pseudonyms.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>As far as I know, only Germany provides the options for alternative “religious names or pseudonyms” on their national ID: <a href="https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/DEU-BO-02004/image-344552.html">https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/DEU-BO-02004/image-344552.html</a> ... So that significantly narrows the options for verifying pseudonyms!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>My personal belief is that we should drop the use of pseudonyms from this draft. I hope that SMCWG members that disagree with this will speak up.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>The Mailbox-validated (MV) profiles are probably more appropriate for users not wishing “real name” identity to be in their certs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Regards, Stephen</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org">smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pedro FUENTES via Smcwg-public<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 7, 2022 2:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <<a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr">dzacharo@harica.gr</a>>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Could it be just acceptable that a pseudonym is freely chosen by a subscriber?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In other words… could it be acceptable to have names in the subjectName which don’t require validation?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>We don’t currently use such attributes, but I wonder if this could be good to reserve certain flexibility for use cases where anonymization is desired. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Pedro</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Le 7 mars 2022 à 18:58, Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>> a écrit :</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> Unless CAs have some clear rules on how to validate pseudonyms, I also believe we should exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles which makes this attribute practically not allowed. We must be explicit about this because other attributes may be allowed.<br><br>Dimitris.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On 7/3/2022 9:41 π.μ., Adriano Santoni via Smcwg-public wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p><span lang=EN-US>We do not support pseudonyms, and do not think there is a need for them.</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>...we could even chose to exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p><span lang=EN-US>Yes, that's what we suggest to do: exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US>Adriano</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Il 02/03/2022 18:43, Stephen Davidson via Smcwg-public ha scritto:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hi Doug:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>1. Further to our discussion today, the language in ETSI EN 319 412-2 probably has the clearest definition:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>The commonName attribute value shall contain a name of the subject. This may be in the subject's preferred presentation format, or a format preferred by the CA, or some other format. Pseudonyms, nicknames, and names with spelling other than defined by the registered name may be used. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>NOTE 1: The commonName attribute has a usage purpose that is different from the required choice of pseudonym or givenName/surname. commonName is used for user friendly representation of the person's name, whereas givenName/surname is used where more formal representation or verification of specific identity of the user is required. To maximize interoperability both are considered necessary.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>It does not give guidance on the scope for “user friendly representation of the person's name” and as far as I can tell, most TSPs apply either (givenName and surname) or pseudonym in that field.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Notwithstanding this, our previous discussions had been for the commonName to include verified information for the purposes of the S/MIME BR, leading to the options described <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_smime_blob_preSBR_SBR.md-2371422-2Dsubject-2Ddistinguished-2Dname-2Dfields&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=SikwTyV2nbwaM8CjAAm0ewzVcCUuXH_rrJl0zlNlYwQ&e=">here</a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><span lang=EN-US>We are interested in hearing perspectives from both Certificate Issuers and Certificate Issuers on this point.</span></u></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>2. The handling of subject:pseudonym is still an unresolved issue – and so text still needs to be tightened up. We are working from the basis that Subject information must be verified, so this would also apply to pseudonym (ie not a self reported name). Pseudonym identity is, by definition, linked to the person’s real identity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>ETSI TS 199 461 tries to deal with it by saying:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Although the outcome of the identity proofing can be a pseudonym identity, identity proofing requires identification of the real identity of the person as determined by applicable identity documents, official registers or other authoritative sources.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>But as far as I can tell, only Germany provides pseudonym as an information attribute on official identity documents. Given the lack of clarity, we could even chose to exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><span lang=EN-US>We’d be interested to hear from Certificate Issuers what their practices are using the pseudonym in regulated certificate types.</span></u></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Best, Stephen</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Stephen Davidson </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>DigiCert Governance, Risk & Compliance<br><a href="mailto:stephen.davidson@digicert.com">stephen.davidson@digicert.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>O 1.441.278.2803 | M 1.441.505.4908</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><code><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></code><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Doug Beattie <a href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"><doug.beattie@globalsign.com></a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022 1:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Stephen Davidson <a href="mailto:Stephen.Davidson@digicert.com"><Stephen.Davidson@digicert.com></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org"><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Common Name contents</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hey Stephen,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>During the call today it was mentioned that all of the subject info pulled from the certificates and displayed via GUI needs to be validated (no more OU logic). I went back and looked at the options for Sponsor validated certs and it permits the Pseudonym to be present in the CN. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I went to check the rules for validation and found this:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>f. <strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Certificate Field:</span></strong> </span><code><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>subject:pseudonym</span></code><span lang=EN-US> (2.5.4.65)<br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Contents:</span></strong> The pseudonym attribute MUST NOT be present if the givenName and/or surname attribute are present. If present, the </span><code><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>subject:pseudonym</span></code><span lang=EN-US> field field MUST be verified according to <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_smime_blob_preSBR_SBR.md-23323-2Dauthentication-2Dof-2Dindividual-2Didentity&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=nliz6I7gIbr8WMy3LZQ94CqxFqzTqVpunO8t0YqxuCo&e=">Section 3.2.3</a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>But I could not find any references to this field in that section, or section 3.2.4 that indicates how this is to be validated. Are there CA validation rules for this, or can any value be supplied?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Doug</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span lang=EN-US>_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>Smcwg-public mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:Smcwg-public@cabforum.org">Smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a 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