<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">While I still think that we should have available placeholders to put “free” information that can be safely ignored by the relying parties, I consider that in particular the CN is not such an adequate placeholder, because this is the most visible field (i.e. what most email clients will show as the signer of a message), and therefore we are opening the door to phishing or MITM issues.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">P<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 Mar 2022, at 13:22, Doug Beattie via Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" class="">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, March 10, 2022 6:46 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Henschel, Andreas <<a href="mailto:a.henschel@d-trust.net" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">a.henschel@d-trust.net</a>>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 10/3/2022 1:34 μ.μ., Henschel, Andreas wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hey Dimitris,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">in a first step, pseudonyms could be allowed in sponsored profiles. From an external point of view, those entities have the same accepted validation level as certificates with an organisation profile as the organisation is properly validated anyway.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">Hi Andreas,<br class=""><br class="">Why should they be allowed if we cannot describe the rules for it? Do you believe it is ok to have a sponsored profile that allows a natural person associated with a company to use any value in the subjectDN of the certificate? I believe the risks for allowing such a practice are not acceptable.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(84, 130, 53);" class="">Values in surname and givenname must be validated, yes, but let’s continue to permit the enterprise RA to specify the CN, OU and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 130, 53);" class="">Pseudonym like we do today. Focus on email validation rules and limit the subject DN validation to C, S, L and O. If there are usecases that demand more, then let’s let them define those rules and policy OIDs to be used in the certificates on top of the profiles we’re defining here.</span><span style="color: rgb(84, 130, 53);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class="">Best regards,<br class="">Dimitris.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Kind regards,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Andreas</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Von:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public<br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Donnerstag, 10. März 2022 12:25<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Juan Ángel Martín<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:martin_ja@camerfirma.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><martin_ja@camerfirma.com></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 10/3/2022 1:14 μ.μ., Juan Ángel Martín wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dimitris,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">One use case of pseudonyms that I know of is the need for the police to sign certain messages, e.g. traffic tickets, with a qualified eIDAS certificate.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">But the police officers do not want their name, surname and personal identification document number to appear on the certificate, which signs the traffic ticket for unavoidable legal reasons in Europe.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think it would be desirable to give an answer to this need in the CABF requirements for SMIME certificates.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman ,serif", serif;" class=""><br class="">Thank you Juan Ángel,<br class=""><br class="">We all agree with the end goal but we can't address the concerns without answering some questions regarding the validation process. For example, what do those traffic tickets look like in terms of the signer? Does it only have a random identifier as described in the 2nd bullet of my previous letter? Does it say something like "Officer John"? It is important to get some transparency on this so the SMCWG can develop validation rules that would support this feature.<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Best regards,<br class="">Dimitris.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Juan Ángel<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">De:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">En nombre de<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public<br class=""><b class="">Enviado el:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>jueves, 10 de marzo de 2022 10:40<br class=""><b class="">Para:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wiedenhorst, Matthias<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:M.Wiedenhorst@tuvit.de" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><M.Wiedenhorst@tuvit.de></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br class=""><b class="">Asunto:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Matthias,<br class=""><br class="">This is indeed a legal requirement in eIDAS and we need to see its applicability for S/MIME certificates.<br class=""><br class="">The problem we need to address is the fact that I can validate myself to a CA with my physical presence and my official name (Dimitrios Zacharopoulos), and ask for a Pseudonym to be included in the certificate, but the process is unclear. Here are some questions/concerns (not addressed explicitly to Matthias, anyone can chime-in):<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Could I ask that my pseudonym is "Matthias Wiedenhorst" or "Mickey Mouse"? How is THAT information validated so that it is not misleading to Relying Parties?<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Can the pseudonym be a name/value that the CA decides, e.g. "Pseudonym-482733812"? How is that helpful for Relying Parties?<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Can a Relying Party ask the CA to reveal the real identity of the person behind the pseudonym? If this is the case, how is this protecting the real person for being in danger?<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class="">Thanks,<br class="">Dimitris.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 10/3/2022 9:05 π.μ., Wiedenhorst, Matthias via Smcwg-public wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hi all!</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Article 5 (2) eIDAS reads:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><i class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">“Without prejudice to the legal effect given to pseudonyms under national law, the use of pseudonyms in electronic transactions shall not be prohibited.”</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I am not a lawyer, but to me it sounds as if prohibiting pseudonyms could cause problems within the EU.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Legitimate use cases that I have heard of from different CAs are for example persons from the “law enforcement area” that are in danger to be threatened or even attacked in their private live when their full real name is known.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As already pointed out, a pseudonym certificate is not an anonymous certificate, but only the CA is able to reveal identity. Identification of the person has to be performed identically as if a certificate without pseudonym would be issued.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Best regards</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Matthias</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Von:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stephen Davidson via Smcwg-public<br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mittwoch, 9. März 2022 15:34<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Pedro FUENTES<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:pfuentes@WISEKEY.COM" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><pfuentes@WISEKEY.COM></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a>; Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In general, the CA is supposed to validate the true identity of a holder behind a subject:pseudonym. This is different from an anonymous cert.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The difficulty we face is that, having chosen to require Subject identity information to be verified, it would be inconsistent to allow the freeform use of pseudonyms.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">As far as I know, only Germany provides the options for alternative “religious names or pseudonyms” on their national ID:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/DEU-BO-02004/image-344552.html" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/DEU-BO-02004/image-344552.html</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>... So that significantly narrows the options for verifying pseudonyms!<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">My personal belief is that we should drop the use of pseudonyms from this draft. I hope that SMCWG members that disagree with this will speak up.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The Mailbox-validated (MV) profiles are probably more appropriate for users not wishing “real name” identity to be in their certs.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regards, Stephen<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">smcwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Pedro FUENTES via Smcwg-public<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, March 7, 2022 2:35 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <<a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">dzacharo@harica.gr</a>>; SMIME Certificate Working Group <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smcwg-public] [EXTERNAL]-Re: Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Could it be just acceptable that a pseudonym is freely chosen by a subscriber?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In other words… could it be acceptable to have names in the subjectName which don’t require validation?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">We don’t currently use such attributes, but I wonder if this could be good to reserve certain flexibility for use cases where anonymization is desired. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Pedro<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Le 7 mars 2022 à 18:58, Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Smcwg-public <<a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a>> a écrit :<o:p class=""></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> Unless CAs have some clear rules on how to validate pseudonyms, I also believe we should exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles which makes this attribute practically not allowed. We must be explicit about this because other attributes may be allowed.<br class=""><br class="">Dimitris.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 7/3/2022 9:41 π.μ., Adriano Santoni via Smcwg-public wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><p class="">We do not support pseudonyms, and do not think there is a need for them.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">...we could even chose to exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><p class="">Yes, that's what we suggest to do: exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="">Adriano<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Il 02/03/2022 18:43, Stephen Davidson via Smcwg-public ha scritto:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Doug:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">1. Further to our discussion today, the language in ETSI EN 319 412-2 probably has the clearest definition:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The commonName attribute value shall contain a name of the subject. This may be in the subject's preferred presentation format, or a format preferred by the CA, or some other format. Pseudonyms, nicknames, and names with spelling other than defined by the registered name may be used.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">NOTE 1: The commonName attribute has a usage purpose that is different from the required choice of pseudonym or givenName/surname. commonName is used for user friendly representation of the person's name, whereas givenName/surname is used where more formal representation or verification of specific identity of the user is required. To maximize interoperability both are considered necessary.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It does not give guidance on the scope for “user friendly representation of the person's name” and as far as I can tell, most TSPs apply either (givenName and surname) or pseudonym in that field.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Notwithstanding this, our previous discussions had been for the commonName to include verified information for the purposes of the S/MIME BR, leading to the options described<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_smime_blob_preSBR_SBR.md-2371422-2Dsubject-2Ddistinguished-2Dname-2Dfields&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=SikwTyV2nbwaM8CjAAm0ewzVcCUuXH_rrJl0zlNlYwQ&e=" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">here</a>.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><u class="">We are interested in hearing perspectives from both Certificate Issuers and Certificate Issuers on this point.</u></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">2. The handling of subject:pseudonym is still an unresolved issue – and so text still needs to be tightened up. We are working from the basis that Subject information must be verified, so this would also apply to pseudonym (ie not a self reported name). Pseudonym identity is, by definition, linked to the person’s real identity<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">ETSI TS 199 461 tries to deal with it by saying:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Although the outcome of the identity proofing can be a pseudonym identity, identity proofing requires identification of the real identity of the person as determined by applicable identity documents, official registers or other authoritative sources.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">But as far as I can tell, only Germany provides pseudonym as an information attribute on official identity documents. Given the lack of clarity, we could even chose to exclude this attribute from the allowed profiles.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><u class="">We’d be interested to hear from Certificate Issuers what their practices are using the pseudonym in regulated certificate types.</u></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best, Stephen<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Stephen Davidson<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">DigiCert Governance, Risk & Compliance<br class=""><a href="mailto:stephen.davidson@digicert.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">stephen.davidson@digicert.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">O 1.441.278.2803 | M 1.441.505.4908<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><code style="font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span></code><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Doug Beattie<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><doug.beattie@globalsign.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, March 2, 2022 1:10 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stephen Davidson<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Stephen.Davidson@digicert.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><Stephen.Davidson@digicert.com></a>; SMIME Certificate Working Group<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><smcwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Common Name contents<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hey Stephen,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">During the call today it was mentioned that all of the subject info pulled from the certificates and displayed via GUI needs to be validated (no more OU logic). I went back and looked at the options for Sponsor validated certs and it permits the Pseudonym to be present in the CN. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I went to check the rules for validation and found this:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">f.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Certificate Field:</span></strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><code style="font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">subject:pseudonym</span></code><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(2.5.4.65)<br class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Contents:</span></strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The pseudonym attribute MUST NOT be present if the givenName and/or surname attribute are present. If present, the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><code style="font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">subject:pseudonym</span></code><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>field field MUST be verified according to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_smime_blob_preSBR_SBR.md-23323-2Dauthentication-2Dof-2Dindividual-2Didentity&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=nliz6I7gIbr8WMy3LZQ94CqxFqzTqVpunO8t0YqxuCo&e=" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Section 3.2.3</a>.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">But I could not find any references to this field in that section, or section 3.2.4 that indicates how this is to be validated. Are there CA validation rules for this, or can any value be supplied?<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Doug<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">Smcwg-public mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="mailto:Smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_smcwg-2Dpublic&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=M6K8kM_fZBp_w11MPEbpQzwTErczaQV8-qlOhtEiIMg&e=" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/smcwg-public</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">Smcwg-public mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="mailto:Smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_smcwg-2Dpublic&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=M6K8kM_fZBp_w11MPEbpQzwTErczaQV8-qlOhtEiIMg&e=" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/smcwg-public</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Smcwg-public mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_smcwg-2Dpublic&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=M6K8kM_fZBp_w11MPEbpQzwTErczaQV8-qlOhtEiIMg&e=" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_smcwg-2Dpublic&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=NCuXVva5JxiZue0JFxEbVTEZS67ltuKPjLakEuBlN-Q&s=M6K8kM_fZBp_w11MPEbpQzwTErczaQV8-qlOhtEiIMg&e=</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________</span></strong><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Sitz der Gesellschaft/Headquarter:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> TÜV Informationstechnik GmbH * Am TÜV 1 * 45307 Essen, Germany</span><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Registergericht/Register Court:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> Amtsgericht/Local Court Essen * HRB 11687 * USt.-IdNr./VAT No.: DE 176132277 * Steuer-Nr./Tax No.: 111/57062251</span><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Geschäftsführung/Management Board:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> Dirk Kretzschmar </span><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">TÜV NORD GROUP</span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Expertise for your Success</span><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Please visit our website: <a href="http://www.tuv-nord.com/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">www.tuv-nord.com</a></span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Besuchen Sie unseren Internetauftritt: <a href="http://www.tuev-nord.de/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">www.tuev-nord.de</a></span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">Smcwg-public mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="mailto:Smcwg-public@cabforum.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Smcwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/smcwg-public" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/smcwg-public</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman ,serif", serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Smcwg-public mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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