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--></style></head><body lang=en-FI link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As per my quick initial review of this ballot, one question / comment. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Should the relevant dates list the changes made to </span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>3.2.2.4.12 </span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>coming effective Jan 15<sup>th</sup>, 2025? I believe the changes in the section are very relevant to CAs?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt'>//Antti</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=mail-editor-reference-message-container><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='color:black'>Servercert-wg <servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org> on behalf of Ryan Dickson via Servercert-wg <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 1. October 2024 at 19.59<br><b>To: </b>ServerCert CA/BF <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject: </b>[Servercert-wg] Discussion Period Begins - Ballot SC-080 V2: "Sunset the use of WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts and relying DCV Methods”<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><u>Purpose of Ballot SC-080 V2:<br></u></b>This ballot proposes updates to the Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted TLS Server Certificates (TLS BRs) to address concerns regarding the use of WHOIS and HTTPS websites for identifying Domain Contacts.<br><br><b><u>Background:<br></u></b>This ballot intends to accomplish two objectives, originally described in [1].<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Objective 1: Enhance WHOIS/RDAP validation of gTLDs with comparable security properties to DNS-based validation and sunset WHOIS/RDAP for ccTLDs.<br><br><u>Justification:</u><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1'>A recent disclosure [2] demonstrated how threat actors could exploit deficiencies in the WHOIS protocol and WHOIS tools served via HTTPS websites to obtain fraudulent TLS certificates.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1'>Discussions within the Mozilla Dev Security Policy (MDSP) community [3] further expressed corresponding risks related to WHOIS, while also noting that ccTLDs may not maintain accurate or up-to-date WHOIS server records. Several examples of inoperative WHOIS servers for ccTLDs were identified.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1'>Discussion in [4] further called into question the reliability of ccTLD WHOIS servers given, per IANA, there is no global policy requirement for ccTLD managers to operate a WHOIS server, and if they do, what kind of information is provided.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1'>Solutions to strengthen existing WHOIS lookup methods were proposed in [5] and are considered in this ballot.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Objective 2: Sunset Methods 3.2.2.4.2 (“Email, Fax, SMS, or Postal Mail to Domain Contact”) and 3.2.2.4.15 (“Phone Contact with Domain Contact”).<br><br><u>Justification:</u><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>While solutions to strengthen WHOIS-relying DCV methods are considered in this ballot (see above), there is limited public evidence of significant reliance on these methods, including in response to [3] and [6].<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>Instead, discussion has identified at least one CA Owner has already sunset reliance on WHOIS [7], and another that has changed its approach [8] for relying on WHOIS since disclosure of [2].<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>More modern and heavily relied-upon DCV methods offer advantages over the existing WHOIS-based methods, including greater opportunity for seamless certificate lifecycle management automation (e.g., [9] and [10]), while also benefiting from recently improved security practices [11]. These methods can also more effectively align subscriber capabilities with agility and resilience expectations necessary to respond to the revocation timelines described in the TLS BRs [12].<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>Beyond the above, previous discussions within the CA/Browser Forum have raised concerns about the perceived value (e.g., [13]) and security (e.g., [14]) of the DCV methods relying on WHOIS, further supporting the rationale for their gradual sunset.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br><b><u>Benefits of adoption:</u></b><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'>Enhanced Security: Eliminates reliance on outdated and vulnerable DCV methods that cannot consistently provide the security required by the TLS BRs, or benefit from recent DCV security enhancements (i.e., Multi-Perspective Issuance Corroboration [11]). <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'>Increased Agility: Encourages site owners to transition to modern DCV methods, creating opportunities for faster, more efficient, and less error-prone certificate lifecycle management. <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'>Opportunity for Innovation: Promotes the development of new and/or improved DCV methods, fostering innovation that may enhance the overall security and agility of the ecosystem.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br><b><u>Proposed Key Dates:</u></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The effective dates considered in this update are intended to 1) address the immediate concerns identified by [2], and 2) offer near-term and longer-term transition periods for subscribers and CA Owners relying on existing implementations of these methods.<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'>January 15, 2025: (1) Prohibit the use of RFC 3912 (WHOIS) and HTTPS websites to identify Domain Contact information. (2) Prohibit the reuse of DCV relying on information obtained using these technologies. (3) Prohibit WHOIS-based DCV methods for Subscriber Certificates containing ccTLDs. (4) CAs MUST NOT rely on cached WHOIS/RDAP data more than 48 hours old. <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'>July 15, 2025: (1) Sunset DCV Methods 3.2.2.4.2 ("Email, Fax, SMS, or Postal Mail to Domain Contact") and 3.2.2.4.15 ("Phone Contact with Domain Contact"). (2) Prior validations using these methods and validation data gathered therein MUST NOT be used to issue new Subscriber Certificates.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br><b><u>Proposal Revision History:</u></b><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'>Pre-Ballot Version #1 [4]<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'>Ballot Version #1 [7]<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'>Version #2 Pre-Release [17] and discussion [18]<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'>Version #2 (this version) [19]<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br>The following motion has been proposed by Ryan Dickson and Chris Clements of Google (Chrome Root Program) and endorsed by Arvid Vermote (GlobalSign) and Pedro Fuentes (OISTE).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>— Motion Begins —<br><br>This ballot modifies the “Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted TLS Server Certificates” (“Baseline Requirements”), based on Version 2.0.7.<br><br>MODIFY the Baseline Requirements as specified in the following Redline:<br><br><a href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/ba28d04894d69c8fac62850b9d0de5061658c7c5..7f2b54cfa5b89f41458a88211566ce508c464804" target="_blank">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/ba28d04894d69c8fac62850b9d0de5061658c7c5..7f2b54cfa5b89f41458a88211566ce508c464804</a> <br><br>— Motion Ends —<br><br>This ballot proposes a Final Maintenance Guideline. The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:<br><br><u>Discussion (no less than 7 days)</u><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6'>Start: 2024-10-01 17:00:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6'>End no earlier than: 2024-10-08 17:00:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br><u>Vote for approval (7 days)</u><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo7'>Start: TBD<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo7'>End: TBD<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Comments are welcome either on-list or with suggested edits via GitHub (preferred) at [19].<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ryan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p style='margin:0cm'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>References:</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin:0cm'>[1] <a href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004900.html">https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004900.html</a><br>[2] <a href="https://labs.watchtowr.com/we-spent-20-to-achieve-rce-and-accidentally-became-the-admins-of-mobi/">https://labs.watchtowr.com/we-spent-20-to-achieve-rce-and-accidentally-became-the-admins-of-mobi/</a><br>[3] <a href="https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/FuOi_uhQB6U/m/hKJOz3XzAAAJ">https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/FuOi_uhQB6U/m/hKJOz3XzAAAJ</a><br>[4] <a href="https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/mAl9XjieSkA/m/oDNWxtPwAQAJ">https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/mAl9XjieSkA/m/oDNWxtPwAQAJ</a><br>[5] <a href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004839.html">https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004839.html</a><br>[6] <a href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004844.html">https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004844.html</a><br>[7] <a href="https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/">https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/</a><br>[8] <a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1917896">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1917896</a><br>[9] <a href="https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#32247-dns-change">https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#32247-dns-change</a><br>[10] <a href="https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#322419-agreed-upon-change-to-website---acme">https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#322419-agreed-upon-change-to-website---acme</a><br>[11] <a href="https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#3229-multi-perspective-issuance-corroboration">https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#3229-multi-perspective-issuance-corroboration</a><br>[12] <a href="https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#491-circumstances-for-revocation">https://cabforum.org/working-groups/server/baseline-requirements/requirements/#491-circumstances-for-revocation</a><br>[13] <a href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2018-August/000113.html">https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2018-August/000113.html</a><br>[14] <a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/validation/2024-July/001995.html">https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/validation/2024-July/001995.html</a><br>[15] <a href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004825.html">https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004825.html</a><br>[16] <a href="https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/compare/356799f0dcfe11deb0a375a11233403236ab72c9..7a2ea7b33611bebf006a99a9a82729f183143eac">https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/compare/356799f0dcfe11deb0a375a11233403236ab72c9..7a2ea7b33611bebf006a99a9a82729f183143eac</a><br>[17] <a href="https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/compare/ba28d04894d69c8fac62850b9d0de5061658c7c5..7a2ea7b33611bebf006a99a9a82729f183143eac">https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/compare/ba28d04894d69c8fac62850b9d0de5061658c7c5..7a2ea7b33611bebf006a99a9a82729f183143eac</a><br>[18] <a href="https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/pull/9">https://github.com/ryancdickson/staging/pull/9</a><br>[19] <a href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/pull/551">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/pull/551</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>