<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/9/2024 12:14 μ.μ., Q Misell via
Servercert-wg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100019204693ce5-9bd8952c-532a-4018-b445-4b1ba54f7406-000000@email.amazonses.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Consulting with the IANA registrar falls apart when a reseller
is involved. Sometimes the correct contact data is held by a
reseller not the registrar of record.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't think we should allow validation based on <a
href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/U0u4dSeajXbodURp"
moz-do-not-send="true">Registration Directory Services</a>
knowing how unreliable they can be.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
This seems overly subjective. Resellers exist whether we like it or
not. They convince Domain Owners to use their services and then act
on behalf of them. For certificate lifecycle management, this has
been discussed multiple times and I recall that the result was that
it is practically impossible for a CA to distinguish beyond
reasonable doubt whether it is dealing with an Applicant/Domain
Owner or a reseller operating on behalf of that Domain Owner.<br>
<br>
In the WHOIS paradigm, resellers already have access to "do bad
things" with the Base Domain Name they register and manage, so they
could obviously abuse their position and issue a TLS Certificate to
Domain Names using ANY validation method under 3.2.2.4.<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100019204693ce5-9bd8952c-532a-4018-b445-4b1ba54f7406-000000@email.amazonses.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<hr
style="height:1px;background-color:#cbd5e0;margin-top:1rem;margin-bottom:1rem;border:0">
<p style="font-size:12px;color:#6c757d"> Any statements
contained in this email are personal to the author and
are not necessarily the statements of the company unless
specifically stated. AS207960 Cyfyngedig, having a
registered office at 13 Pen-y-lan Terrace, Caerdydd,
Cymru, CF23 9EU, trading as Glauca Digital, is a company
registered in Wales under № <a
href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/9RSVdvm0MrsRNsbs"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">12417574</a>,
LEI 875500FXNCJPAPF3PD10. ICO register №: <a
href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/KbjUXXJAKmBFs6zI"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ZA782876</a>.
UK VAT №: GB378323867. EU VAT №: EU372013983. Turkish
VAT №: 0861333524. South Korean VAT №: 522-80-03080.
AS207960 Ewrop OÜ, having a registered office at
Lääne-Viru maakond, Tapa vald, Porkuni küla, Lossi tn 1,
46001, trading as Glauca Digital, is a company
registered in Estonia under № 16755226. Estonian VAT №:
EE102625532. Glauca Digital and the Glauca logo are
registered trademarks in the UK, under № UK00003718474
and № UK00003718468, respectively.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 18 Sept 2024 at 10:59,
Amir Omidi via Servercert-wg <<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I do not agree. What’s the point of keeping
this bespoke method available? These options create
complexity and complexity creates security vulnerabilities.
In what situation would this method be useful where DNS
currently can’t solve that need?</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at
04:56 Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I
agree if by "WHOIS-related" methods we mean any
method based on the WHOIS protocol, either
directly or via protocol gateways (e.g. web-based
interfaces to WHOIS records). And I support the
WHOIS deprecation initiative in this sense, since
it has been shown that it may be unreliable.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">However,
where the domain contacts information is obtained,
e.g. via the web, from an IANA-accredited domain
registrar and is *not* based on WHIOS, then I
think it can be used. </font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I
assume everyone agrees as long as no one raises a
hand to object.</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adriano</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Il 17/09/2024 18:04, Pedro FUENTES ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Could it be that we all agree that
WHOIS-related method are so tricky that it
deserves to be ditched and the only thing to
requires consensus is the deadline to apply?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On my particular side, I personally
consider that 1/1/2025 is a reasonable date. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Le 17 sept. 2024 à 17:59,
Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a>
a écrit :<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Andrew,<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I
was not referring to any WHOIS server, but
rather to the information about domain
"owners" that a registrar is supposed to
collect and keep.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">So
you believe that if a CA does the following,
the domain contact email they can
(sometimes) get is <i
style="font-family:Calibri">unreliable</i>?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">1)
Consult the list of accredited domain
registrars on the IANA website (<a
href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/H1JzZCLPVSEY13XJ"
style="font-family:Calibri"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars</a>),
thus finding confirmation of one particular
registrar's website the CA was looking for.<br>
2) Access the website found in point 1 above
and query the information available on a
certain domain.<br>
3) At this point, sometimes (rarely) obtain,
among other information, also the email
address of a domain contact.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Note
that here I'm not talking about the WHOIS
protocol nor WHOIS servers, but about the
information that the domain registrar has
the duty to collect and store (not
necessarily publish) about the subject who
registered a domain.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Adriano</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></p>
<div>Il 17/09/2024 17:13, Andrew Ayer ha
scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="font-family:monospace">[NOTICE: Pay attention - external email - Sender is <a
href="mailto:agwa@andrewayer.name"
style="font-family:monospace" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">agwa@andrewayer.name</a> ]
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 07:21:28 +0000
Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
style="font-family:monospace" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="font-family:monospace">I believe that the /interactive
/query of the domain registrar, directly on its website, can be
considered reliable to the extent that the CA is confident that it is in
fact consulting the "right" website.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="font-family:monospace">CAs were not consulting the right WHOIS server, despite a database of
correct WHOIS servers existing (at least for gTLDs). How would the problem
be better when it comes to finding the "right" website?
The gTLD registry agreement requires gTLD operators to update the IANA
Rootzone Database when their WHOIS server changes; I don't see a
similar requirement for keeping a database of website URLs up-to-date.
Regards,
Andrew
</pre>
</blockquote>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Servercert-wg mailing list</span><br>
<span><a
href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a></span><br>
<span><a
href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/nFNVYlUfxuxcg038" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_servercert-2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=IqgVx_nvAxgc9vUVg8d2gCn7R7eMqKPCSgoIW6If9F-DHYck2BXkEdTactbQnmGx&s=TSpgJKJi2JL8yKR40EYmCep1QcQe0Ueo8VaHzA2ijT0&e=</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/3ZZB5DEI1xwMn0DE"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://e.as207960.net/w4bdyj/JXP5t0JjVxRBmGcU"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="ampimg"
style="display:none;visibility:none;margin:0;padding:0;line-height:0;"><img
src="https://e.as207960.net/img/w4bdyj/oK5m7hW6mBxJ0wLN"
alt="" moz-do-not-send="true"></p>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Servercert-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>