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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/9/2024 11:59 π.μ., Amir Omidi via
Servercert-wg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:01000192045bf3ef-a9e069a0-d0d1-49c5-962f-ce253a1cf132-000000@email.amazonses.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">I do not agree. What’s the point of keeping this
bespoke method available? These options create complexity and
complexity creates security vulnerabilities. In what situation
would this method be useful where DNS currently can’t solve that
need?</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
This is well explained in point 2 of Andrew's <a
href="https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2024-September/004839.html">earlier
post</a>. Copying here for convenience:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Regrettably, parsing emails sent to a Domain Contact is often the
easiest way to implement automated validation for a large number of
domains, since it allows delegation to a single central point, using
configuration that is often already in place (WHOIS record contact
information). Delegating DNS records using CNAME (e.g. with [3]) is
better, but not as easy because it requires the subscriber to operate
public-facing infrastructure. So I think that banning WHOIS,
particularly on this timeline, would lead to a net reduction in
automation, and I don't believe this is justified by the available
evidence when a more targeted fix is available.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:01000192045bf3ef-a9e069a0-d0d1-49c5-962f-ce253a1cf132-000000@email.amazonses.com">
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at
04:56 Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I agree
if by "WHOIS-related" methods we mean any method based
on the WHOIS protocol, either directly or via protocol
gateways (e.g. web-based interfaces to WHOIS records).
And I support the WHOIS deprecation initiative in this
sense, since it has been shown that it may be
unreliable.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">However,
where the domain contacts information is obtained,
e.g. via the web, from an IANA-accredited domain
registrar and is *not* based on WHIOS, then I think it
can be used. </font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I assume
everyone agrees as long as no one raises a hand to
object.</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adriano</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Il 17/09/2024 18:04, Pedro FUENTES ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Could it be that we all agree that
WHOIS-related method are so tricky that it deserves to
be ditched and the only thing to requires consensus is
the deadline to apply?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On my particular side, I personally
consider that 1/1/2025 is a reasonable date. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Le 17 sept. 2024 à 17:59,
Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a>
a écrit :<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Andrew,<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I
was not referring to any WHOIS server, but
rather to the information about domain "owners"
that a registrar is supposed to collect and
keep.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">So
you believe that if a CA does the following, the
domain contact email they can (sometimes) get is
<i style="font-family:Calibri">unreliable</i>?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">1)
Consult the list of accredited domain registrars
on the IANA website (<a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars"
style="font-family:Calibri"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars</a>),
thus finding confirmation of one particular
registrar's website the CA was looking for.<br>
2) Access the website found in point 1 above and
query the information available on a certain
domain.<br>
3) At this point, sometimes (rarely) obtain,
among other information, also the email address
of a domain contact.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Note
that here I'm not talking about the WHOIS
protocol nor WHOIS servers, but about the
information that the domain registrar has the
duty to collect and store (not necessarily
publish) about the subject who registered a
domain.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Adriano</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"
style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</font></p>
<div>Il 17/09/2024 17:13, Andrew Ayer ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="font-family:monospace">[NOTICE: Pay attention - external email - Sender is <a
href="mailto:agwa@andrewayer.name"
style="font-family:monospace"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">agwa@andrewayer.name</a> ]
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 07:21:28 +0000
Adriano Santoni via Servercert-wg <a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
style="font-family:monospace"
moz-do-not-send="true"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="font-family:monospace">I believe that the /interactive
/query of the domain registrar, directly on its website, can be
considered reliable to the extent that the CA is confident that it is in
fact consulting the "right" website.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="font-family:monospace">CAs were not consulting the right WHOIS server, despite a database of
correct WHOIS servers existing (at least for gTLDs). How would the problem
be better when it comes to finding the "right" website?
The gTLD registry agreement requires gTLD operators to update the IANA
Rootzone Database when their WHOIS server changes; I don't see a
similar requirement for keeping a database of website URLs up-to-date.
Regards,
Andrew
</pre>
</blockquote>
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