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<p class="MsoNormal">The suggestion for that date is based on our discussions with customers about the time that it will take for organizations to change their practices, rather than the specific motivation for the deprecation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan Dickson <ryandickson@google.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 16, 2024 12:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ponds-White, Trev <trevolip@amazon.com>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ben Wilson <bwilson@mozilla.com>; Pedro FUENTES <pfuentes@wisekey.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] - Sunsetting use of WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:#FFFF99">CAUTION</span></strong><span style="color:black;background:#FFFF99">: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
 you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Trev, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I interpret the <a href="https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/#:~:text=Why%20are%20we,of%20this%20post." target="_blank">
motivation</a> for the behavior described in the link you shared as a matter of overcoming the low success rate of WHOIS-based communications (“<i>Over the past several years, we’ve observed that the WHOIS lookup success rate has declined to less than 5 percent.
 If you rely on the contact addresses listed in the WHOIS database provided by your domain registrar to validate your domain ownership, this might create an availability risk.</i>”)
<br>
<br>
The motivation for the ballot is focused on managing a separate risk, closing circumstances that can be actively exploited and result in fraudulent certificate issuance (and worse, abuse given the existence of that certificate). Given this perspective, can
 you help me better understand what you'd consider an appropriate timeline to close what could be considered an open vulnerability with this DCV method?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ryan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 1:12 PM Ponds-White, Trev via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks for putting this together Ryan. As some might be aware Amazon began a process earlier this year to remove use of this method. (<a href="https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/" target="_blank">https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We got feedback from customers that for some this is a non-trivial dependency to remove. It’s not uncommon for companies to have built automation on top of email validation. Based
 on the information we got I recommend a date of April 30, 2025. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 16, 2024 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pedro FUENTES <<a href="mailto:pfuentes@wisekey.com" target="_blank">pfuentes@wisekey.com</a>>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] [EXTERNAL]- Sunsetting use of WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:#FFFF99">CAUTION</span></strong><span style="color:black;background:#FFFF99">: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
 you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Mozilla will endorse, too, if needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ben<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 9:06 AM Pedro FUENTES via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">OISTE would endorse this initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 16 Sep 2024, at 16:32, Ryan Dickson via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In light of recent events where research from WatchTowr Labs demonstrated how threat actors could exploit WHOIS to obtain fraudulently
 issued TLS certificates [1] and follow-on discussions in MDSP [2][3], we drafted an introductory proposal [4] to sunset the use of WHOIS for identifying Domain Contacts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The proposal sets a prohibition against relying on WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts beginning 11/1/2024.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">While publicly-trusted CA Owners are required to disclose and maintain in-use DCV methods to the CCADB [5], the collected data lacks
 specificity, hindering our ability to assess the extent of reliance on WHOIS and the potential impact of transitioning away from it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Feedback on the proposal (preferably using comments or suggestions on the Pull Request via GitHub) along with volunteers for endorsers would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Ryan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">P.S., I apologize if this effort is redundant to discussions already taking place in the Forum, I was traveling last week and am catching
 up on email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[1]
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__labs.watchtowr.com_we-2Dspent-2D20-2Dto-2Dachieve-2Drce-2Dand-2Daccidentally-2Dbecame-2Dthe-2Dadmins-2Dof-2Dmobi_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=qZzpnP-57sE4nQ6LxHM50ULVrjSKSIk2Fccl0d8PESE&e=" target="_blank">
https://labs.watchtowr.com/we-spent-20-to-achieve-rce-and-accidentally-became-the-admins-of-mobi/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[2]
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_a_mozilla.org_g_dev-2Dsecurity-2Dpolicy_c_FuOi-5FuhQB6U&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=31lolz5JP-8ykEL9HDAxaX6AcVj3rFj7LwOwRxwFkZg&e=" target="_blank">
https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/FuOi_uhQB6U</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[3]
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_a_mozilla.org_g_dev-2Dsecurity-2Dpolicy_c_mAl9XjieSkA&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=37YIE6Jw_R8c8obIjNP3qo3yo9YW36r4WMZH76HyUGM&e=" target="_blank">
https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/mAl9XjieSkA</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[4]
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_servercert_pull_548&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=vBGh-YJqmgDPKGnq5cAcEuu__uSmeZaCK_EGoFkB-Kc&e=" target="_blank">
https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/pull/548</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[5]
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1IXL8Yk12gPQs8GXiosXCPLPgATJilaiVy-2Df9SbsMA28_edit-3Fgid-3D268412787-23gid-3D268412787&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=nHPN4vmJhl30c7Nh_y7NmG73eUtxjUstZR6YNcUH0o4&e=" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IXL8Yk12gPQs8GXiosXCPLPgATJilaiVy-f9SbsMA28/edit?gid=268412787#gid=268412787</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_servercert-2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=hOfLasOApOVBc0Uwo83PbDiIvJ4IjPP7O-hs7suejHw&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_servercert-2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=hOfLasOApOVBc0Uwo83PbDiIvJ4IjPP7O-hs7suejHw&e=</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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WISeKey SA</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:black">Pedro Fuentes<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:black">CSO - Trust Services Manager</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:black">Office: <a href="tel:+41%2022%20594%2030%2000" target="_blank">
+ 41 (0) 22 594 30 00</a><br>
Mobile: + 41 (0) </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">791 274 790</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:black">Address: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt">Avenue Louis-Casaï 58 | </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">1216 Cointrin | Switzerland</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">Stay connected with <a href="http://www.wisekey.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#F62400">WISeKey</span></a><br>
<br>
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#78A600">THIS IS A TRUSTED MAIL</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#78A600">: This message is digitally signed with a WISeKey identity.
 If you get a mail from WISeKey please check the signature to avoid security risks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:darkgray">CONFIDENTIALITY: </span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:darkgray">This email and any files transmitted with it can be confidential
 and it’s intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:darkgray">DISCLAIMER: </span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:darkgray">WISeKey does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of this
 message and does not accept any liability for any errors or omissions herein as this message has been transmitted over a public network. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information may be intercepted, corrupted, or contain
 viruses. Attachments to this e-mail are checked for viruses; however, we do not accept any liability for any damage sustained by viruses and therefore you are kindly requested to check for viruses upon receipt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg" target="_blank">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg" target="_blank">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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