<div dir="ltr">Hi Trev,<div><br></div><div>I interpret the <a href="https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/#:~:text=Why%20are%20we,of%20this%20post." target="_blank">motivation</a> for the behavior described in the link you shared as a matter of overcoming the low success rate of WHOIS-based communications (“<i>Over the past several years, we’ve observed that the WHOIS lookup success rate has declined to less than 5 percent. If you rely on the contact addresses listed in the WHOIS database provided by your domain registrar to validate your domain ownership, this might create an availability risk.</i>”) <br><br>The motivation for the ballot is focused on managing a separate risk, closing circumstances that can be actively exploited and result in fraudulent certificate issuance (and worse, abuse given the existence of that certificate). Given this perspective, can you help me better understand what you'd consider an appropriate timeline to close what could be considered an open vulnerability with this DCV method?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Ryan</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 1:12 PM Ponds-White, Trev via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for putting this together Ryan. As some might be aware Amazon began a process earlier this year to remove use of this method. (<a href="https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/" target="_blank">https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-certificate-manager-will-discontinue-whois-lookup-for-email-validated-certificates/</a>)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We got feedback from customers that for some this is a non-trivial dependency to remove. It’s not uncommon for companies to have built automation on top of email validation. Based on the information we got I recommend a date of April 30,
2025. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 16, 2024 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pedro FUENTES <<a href="mailto:pfuentes@wisekey.com" target="_blank">pfuentes@wisekey.com</a>>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] [EXTERNAL]- Sunsetting use of WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Mozilla will endorse, too, if needed.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ben<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 9:06 AM Pedro FUENTES via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">OISTE would endorse this initiative<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 16 Sep 2024, at 16:32, Ryan Dickson via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">All,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In light of recent events where research from WatchTowr Labs demonstrated how threat actors could exploit WHOIS to obtain fraudulently issued TLS certificates [1] and follow-on discussions in
MDSP [2][3], we drafted an introductory proposal [4] to sunset the use of WHOIS for identifying Domain Contacts.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The proposal sets a prohibition against relying on WHOIS to identify Domain Contacts beginning 11/1/2024.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">While publicly-trusted CA Owners are required to disclose and maintain in-use DCV methods to the CCADB [5], the collected data lacks specificity, hindering our ability to assess the extent of
reliance on WHOIS and the potential impact of transitioning away from it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Feedback on the proposal (preferably using comments or suggestions on the Pull Request via GitHub) along with volunteers for endorsers would be appreciated.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Ryan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">P.S., I apologize if this effort is redundant to discussions already taking place in the Forum, I was traveling last week and am catching up on email.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[1] <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__labs.watchtowr.com_we-2Dspent-2D20-2Dto-2Dachieve-2Drce-2Dand-2Daccidentally-2Dbecame-2Dthe-2Dadmins-2Dof-2Dmobi_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=qZzpnP-57sE4nQ6LxHM50ULVrjSKSIk2Fccl0d8PESE&e=" target="_blank">
https://labs.watchtowr.com/we-spent-20-to-achieve-rce-and-accidentally-became-the-admins-of-mobi/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[2] <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_a_mozilla.org_g_dev-2Dsecurity-2Dpolicy_c_FuOi-5FuhQB6U&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=31lolz5JP-8ykEL9HDAxaX6AcVj3rFj7LwOwRxwFkZg&e=" target="_blank">
https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/FuOi_uhQB6U</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[3] <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_a_mozilla.org_g_dev-2Dsecurity-2Dpolicy_c_mAl9XjieSkA&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=37YIE6Jw_R8c8obIjNP3qo3yo9YW36r4WMZH76HyUGM&e=" target="_blank">
https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/mAl9XjieSkA</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[4] <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_cabforum_servercert_pull_548&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=vBGh-YJqmgDPKGnq5cAcEuu__uSmeZaCK_EGoFkB-Kc&e=" target="_blank">
https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/pull/548</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[5] <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1IXL8Yk12gPQs8GXiosXCPLPgATJilaiVy-2Df9SbsMA28_edit-3Fgid-3D268412787-23gid-3D268412787&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=1CJcldkOKNaH6Tu9kiTliBmTMzTdtFrQ0USL5juRHSkA78re2Z_FuT3Hr1z1Cd6m&s=nHPN4vmJhl30c7Nh_y7NmG73eUtxjUstZR6YNcUH0o4&e=" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IXL8Yk12gPQs8GXiosXCPLPgATJilaiVy-f9SbsMA28/edit?gid=268412787#gid=268412787</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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