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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I had the same thought about firewall rules vs configuration changes being duplicative. I also agree about the dubious value of “</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">hardware failures, software
crashes, and system restarts</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">”. I left it in since it was there but I was kind of struggling to figure out the purpose of some of that information. I assume its there for the purpose of understanding the impact and duration
of an unexpected outage of your boundary protections? I don’t think that list really gets you that but it might be a piece of the picture for some, but not all, environments.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Christophe Bonjean <christophe.bonjean@globalsign.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 5:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ponds-White, Trev <trevolip@amazon.com>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] [Discussion Period Begins]: SC-69 Clarify router and firewall logging requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I agree with Trev’s perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A few comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Firewall rules are a separate item, but aren’t firewall rules covered by configuration changes? Should we merge it?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">What’s the purpose of “hardware failures, software crashes, and system restarts”? System restarts I could see how it’s relevant for audit
logging purposes, but not sure what the additional value is of logging hardware failures and software crashes.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Christophe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ponds-White, Trev via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 3:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Martijn Katerbarg <<a href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>; Clint Wilson
<<a href="mailto:clintw@apple.com">clintw@apple.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] [Discussion Period Begins]: SC-69 Clarify router and firewall logging requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think “router and firewall activities” are solutions that don’t identify the problem we are trying to solve. Ultimately we want to know that the CA systems are segregated and protected. In this section we
are specifying the required logs the CAs should have that allow them to monitor this and investigate if issues occur. I think it would be better to change this something like<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“</span>Network boundary controls (firewall, switch, router, gateway, or other network control device or system) activities. Relevant activities to log include configuration changes, firmware updates, and
access control modifications. As well as system events and errors, including hardware failures, software crashes, and system restarts.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This also better aligns with NetSec 1.f “Configure each network boundary control (firewall, switch, router, gateway, or other network control device or system) with rules that support only the services, protocols, ports, and communications
that the CA has identified as necessary to its operations;”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Martijn Katerbarg via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 5, 2024 12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Clint Wilson <<a href="mailto:clintw@apple.com">clintw@apple.com</a>>; ServerCert CA/BF <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] [Discussion Period Begins]: SC-69 Clarify router and firewall logging requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:#FFFF99">CAUTION</span></strong><span style="color:black;background:#FFFF99">: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Clint,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the feedback!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m not sure the wording "Router and firewall activities" is considered an unspecified term, and leaves the exact definition and scope up to the CA, however” is necessary or even really helpful. I think it would be clearer to
introduce Section 5.4.1.1 with something like “Logging of router and firewall activities necessary to meet the requirements of Section 5.4.1, Subsection 3.6 MUST at a minimum include:”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’d agree, this makes sense to update.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m not sold on the “Subsection” part, but I don’t recall if we have good semantics established for referencing the numbered paragraphs/sections under a Section heading.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This was more a design decision, since Section 5.4.1 is already a lengthy section with a lot of information. Personally I feel creating the subsection make it easier to follow through. I’m open to changing
if more people feel this should be addressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think the entire section including and under "Logging of router and firewall activities SHOULD NOT include:” should be removed. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Based on the reasoning provided, I agree that it doesn’t really add anything extra to the requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">The concluding sentence "CAs are encouraged to recommend additional MUST and SHOULD NOT requirements through an email to
<a href="mailto:questions@cabforum.org">questions@cabforum.org</a>, for future discussion within the appropriate Working Group.” stands out as I think it’s the only such “encouragement” in the BRs. I don’t think that makes it bad or that it should be removed,
but I’m also not sure how valuable it is to the BRs as a policy. I admit that may be because I view this encouragement as fundamental to membership and participation in the CA/B Forum at all — every member, regardless of type, should feel welcome and encouraged
to recommend changes to any of the CA/B Forum documents. But we don’t say that anywhere, so maybe this is a good start?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I took this approach from the CSWG, which used it during the switch to hardware-based keys. I’m not sure it was ever utilized however.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If there’s strong opinions on removing this, I don’t have a problem with that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
I’ll leave the comments open for a bit, before I make the above changes, in case there is more feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Martijn <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif;color:black">Clint Wilson <<a href="mailto:clintw@apple.com">clintw@apple.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 3 February 2024 at 01:13<br>
<b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg <<a href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>, ServerCert CA/BF <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Servercert-wg] [Discussion Period Begins]: SC-69 Clarify router and firewall logging requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Martijn,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks for sending this out for discussion. Just a few comments at this point:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m not sure the wording "Router and firewall activities" is considered an unspecified term, and leaves the exact definition and scope up to the CA, however” is necessary or even really helpful. I think it would be clearer to
introduce Section 5.4.1.1 with something like “Logging of router and firewall activities necessary to meet the requirements of Section 5.4.1, Subsection 3.6 MUST at a minimum include:”</span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m not sold on the “Subsection” part, but I don’t recall if we have good semantics established for referencing the numbered paragraphs/sections under a Section heading.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think the entire section including and under "Logging of router and firewall activities SHOULD NOT include:” should be removed. </span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">The first item listed seems overly broad (arguably, imo, even covering the “inbound and outbound” connections of the second item) and so making it a SHOULD NOT seems too strong a recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">The second item seems counterintuitive and difficult to implement correctly+consistently. It could be read as something like “don’t log unless you know you’re being exploited”, which doesn’t sound like a recommendation we should
be making (especially in the context of post-incident data analysis).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Neither of these recommendations seems necessary to accomplish the goals of additional clarity and specificity of what MUST be logged.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">The concluding sentence "CAs are encouraged to recommend additional MUST and SHOULD NOT requirements through an email to
<a href="mailto:questions@cabforum.org">questions@cabforum.org</a>, for future discussion within the appropriate Working Group.” stands out as I think it’s the only such “encouragement” in the BRs. I don’t think that makes it bad or that it should be removed,
but I’m also not sure how valuable it is to the BRs as a policy. I admit that may be because I view this encouragement as fundamental to membership and participation in the CA/B Forum at all — every member, regardless of type, should feel welcome and encouraged
to recommend changes to any of the CA/B Forum documents. But we don’t say that anywhere, so maybe this is a good start?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-Clint<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Jan 29, 2024, at 10:30 AM, Martijn Katerbarg via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Summary: </span></strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-this-ballot-aims-to-"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This ballot aims to clarify what data needs to be logged as part of the "Firewall and router activities" logging requirement in the Baseline Requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-this-pull-request-pr"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This ballot is proposed by Martijn Katerbarg (Sectigo) and endorsed by Daniel Jeffery (Fastly) and Ben Wilson (Mozilla).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-%E2%80%94-motion-begins-%E2%80%94"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">--- Motion Begins ---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-this-ballot-modifies"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This ballot modifies the “Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted Certificates" ("Baseline Reuqirements"), based on Version
2.0.2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-modify-the-baseline-"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">MODIFY the Baseline Requirements as specified in the following Redline:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/41f01640748fa612386f8b1a3031cd1bff3d4f35...807675c91c8500157b0ffd58ab3a40b0b17075e5"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/41f01640748fa612386f8b1a3031cd1bff3d4f35...807675c91c8500157b0ffd58ab3a40b0b17075e5</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-----motion-ends----"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">--- Motion Ends ---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-this-ballot-proposes"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This ballot proposes a Final Maintenance Guideline. The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="bkmrk-discussion-%2811%2B-days"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Discussion (at least 7 days)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="null" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5">Start time: 2024-01-2<span lang="SV">9</span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>1<span lang="SV">8</span>:<span lang="SV">3</span>0:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li><li class="null" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5">End time: not before 2024-02-05 18:30:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p id="bkmrk-vote-for-approval-%287"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Vote for approval (7 days)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="null" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">Start time: TBD<o:p></o:p></li><li class="null" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">End time: TBD<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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