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--></style></head><body lang=en-SE link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode:space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Clint,<br><br>Thanks for the feedback!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’m not sure the wording "Router and firewall activities" is considered an unspecified term, and leaves the exact definition and scope up to the CA, however” is necessary or even really helpful. I think it would be clearer to introduce Section 5.4.1.1 with something like “Logging of router and firewall activities necessary to meet the requirements of Section 5.4.1, Subsection 3.6 MUST at a minimum include:”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’d agree, this makes sense to update.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo4'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’m not sold on the “Subsection” part, but I don’t recall if we have good semantics established for referencing the numbered paragraphs/sections under a Section heading.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This was more a design decision, since Section 5.4.1 is already a lengthy section with a lot of information. Personally I feel creating the subsection make it easier to follow through. I’m open to changing if more people feel this should be addressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol start=2 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I think the entire section including and under "Logging of router and firewall activities SHOULD NOT include:” should be removed. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Based on the reasoning provided, I agree that it doesn’t really add anything extra to the requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol start=3 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The concluding sentence "CAs are encouraged to recommend additional MUST and SHOULD NOT requirements through an email to <a href="mailto:questions@cabforum.org">questions@cabforum.org</a>, for future discussion within the appropriate Working Group.” stands out as I think it’s the only such “encouragement” in the BRs. I don’t think that makes it bad or that it should be removed, but I’m also not sure how valuable it is to the BRs as a policy. I admit that may be because I view this encouragement as fundamental to membership and participation in the CA/B Forum at all — every member, regardless of type, should feel welcome and encouraged to recommend changes to any of the CA/B Forum documents. But we don’t say that anywhere, so maybe this is a good start?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I took this approach from the CSWG, which used it during the switch to hardware-based keys. I’m not sure it was ever utilized however. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If there’s strong opinions on removing this, I don’t have a problem with that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br>I’ll leave the comments open for a bit, before I make the above changes, in case there is more feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br>Regards,<br><br>Martijn <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black'>Clint Wilson <clintw@apple.com><br><b>Date: </b>Saturday, 3 February 2024 at 01:13<br><b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg <martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com>, ServerCert CA/BF <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Servercert-wg] [Discussion Period Begins]: SC-69 Clarify router and firewall logging requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Hi Martijn,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks for sending this out for discussion. Just a few comments at this point:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’m not sure the wording "Router and firewall activities" is considered an unspecified term, and leaves the exact definition and scope up to the CA, however” is necessary or even really helpful. I think it would be clearer to introduce Section 5.4.1.1 with something like “Logging of router and firewall activities necessary to meet the requirements of Section 5.4.1, Subsection 3.6 MUST at a minimum include:”<o:p></o:p></span></li><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’m not sold on the “Subsection” part, but I don’t recall if we have good semantics established for referencing the numbered paragraphs/sections under a Section heading.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I think the entire section including and under "Logging of router and firewall activities SHOULD NOT include:” should be removed. <o:p></o:p></span></li><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The first item listed seems overly broad (arguably, imo, even covering the “inbound and outbound” connections of the second item) and so making it a SHOULD NOT seems too strong a recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The second item seems counterintuitive and difficult to implement correctly+consistently. It could be read as something like “don’t log unless you know you’re being exploited”, which doesn’t sound like a recommendation we should be making (especially in the context of post-incident data analysis).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Neither of these recommendations seems necessary to accomplish the goals of additional clarity and specificity of what MUST be logged.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo7'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The concluding sentence "CAs are encouraged to recommend additional MUST and SHOULD NOT requirements through an email to questions@cabforum.org, for future discussion within the appropriate Working Group.” stands out as I think it’s the only such “encouragement” in the BRs. I don’t think that makes it bad or that it should be removed, but I’m also not sure how valuable it is to the BRs as a policy. I admit that may be because I view this encouragement as fundamental to membership and participation in the CA/B Forum at all — every member, regardless of type, should feel welcome and encouraged to recommend changes to any of the CA/B Forum documents. But we don’t say that anywhere, so maybe this is a good start?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>-Clint<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>On Jan 29, 2024, at 10:30 AM, Martijn Katerbarg via Servercert-wg <servercert-wg@cabforum.org> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Summary: </span></strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-this-ballot-aims-to-><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This ballot aims to clarify what data needs to be logged as part of the "Firewall and router activities" logging requirement in the Baseline Requirements</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-this-pull-request-pr><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This ballot is proposed by Martijn Katerbarg (Sectigo) and endorsed by Daniel Jeffery (Fastly) and Ben Wilson (Mozilla).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p id="bkmrk-%E2%80%94-motion-begins-%E2%80%94"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>--- Motion Begins ---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-this-ballot-modifies><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This ballot modifies the “Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted Certificates" ("Baseline Reuqirements"), based on Version 2.0.2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-modify-the-baseline-><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>MODIFY the Baseline Requirements as specified in the following Redline:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/41f01640748fa612386f8b1a3031cd1bff3d4f35...807675c91c8500157b0ffd58ab3a40b0b17075e5"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/41f01640748fa612386f8b1a3031cd1bff3d4f35...807675c91c8500157b0ffd58ab3a40b0b17075e5</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-----motion-ends----><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>--- Motion Ends ---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p id=bkmrk-this-ballot-proposes><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This ballot proposes a Final Maintenance Guideline. The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p id="bkmrk-discussion-%2811%2B-days"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Discussion (at least 7 days)<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=null style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Start time: 2024-01-2<span lang=SV>9</span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>1<span lang=SV>8</span>:<span lang=SV>3</span>0:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li><li class=null style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>End time: not before 2024-02-05 1<span lang=EN-US>8</span>:<span lang=EN-US>3</span>0:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p id="bkmrk-vote-for-approval-%287"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Vote for approval (7 days)<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=null style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Start time: TBD<o:p></o:p></li><li class=null style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>End time: TBD<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>_______________________________________________<br>Servercert-wg mailing list<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1'>Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1'>https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div id=mail-editor-reference-message-container><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>