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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/10/2023 4:51 μ.μ., Inigo Barreira
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM4PR17MB616041D3CC73375AE426013281D4A@DM4PR17MB6160.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">I disagree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<br>
That's unfortunate because the language in the Bylaws seems
unambiguous. It doesn't say that the Chair is allowed to make <i>any</i>
minor change but has an explicit set of changes. Even changing a
bulleted list into a numbered list would be a formatting change, but
that is clearly not allowed.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM4PR17MB616041D3CC73375AE426013281D4A@DM4PR17MB6160.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"> Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you’re
saying, but changing the formatting/content will require a
new version of the ballot with associated new discussion
period and voting period<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">This proposed change by Ryan is not changing
the content not adding/removing anything. The issue is due
to the artifacts and the generating of the PDF. If you
review that proposal, you´ll see that is to harmonize the
GitHub and PDF styles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The Git version is the canonical version, so in order to meet the
Bylaws, even if you change a full-stop , you must follow the process
of another round of discussion with the updated formatting change
and then start the voting.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM4PR17MB616041D3CC73375AE426013281D4A@DM4PR17MB6160.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> Corey Bonnell
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Corey.Bonnell@digicert.com"><Corey.Bonnell@digicert.com></a> <br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 19 de octubre de 2023 14:21<br>
<b>Para:</b> Inigo Barreira
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com"><Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com></a>; CA/B Forum Server
Certificate WG Public Discussion List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a>; Dimitris
Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> RE: [Servercert-wg] Voting period begins:
Ballot SC-066: Fall 2023 Clean-up v2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
Inigo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Comments
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">>
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">the chair of the CWG can perform some changes
that do not change anything without requiring a ballot
procedure, so I guess there´s nothing to vote/discuss there<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you’re
saying, but changing the formatting/content will require a
new version of the ballot with associated new discussion
period and voting period. This should be clear from Bylaws
2.4 (8), as modifying arbitrary formatting does not fall
within the allowed set of post-voting changes that can be
performed by the (Vice) Chair.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">>
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">The change proposed by Ryan is just a simple
issue with the format and it´s not changing the content nor
anything else.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB">Some
members do see the formatting of these documents as
significant and will vote accordingly. See [1] for a recent
example.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB">I
agree with Dimitris: if this formatting change is to be
included, then the ballot redline needs to be updated to
incorporate the changes and the appropriate commits included
in the immutable link. To do otherwise will likely result in
confusion, as members will be unsure on what they’re voting
on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB">Corey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-GB">[1]
<a
href="https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/cscwg-public/2022-May/000810.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/cscwg-public/2022-May/000810.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> Servercert-wg
<<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Inigo Barreira via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 19, 2023 7:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <<a
href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dzacharo@harica.gr</a>>;
CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List
<<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Voting period
begins: Ballot SC-066: Fall 2023 Clean-up v2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Well, my interpretation is that this is not
changing the ballot itself, the redline still remains the
same (there´s no change in that redline) and only if this
ballot passes, at the end, and before publishing, and
considered section 2.4, item 8, the chair of the CWG can
perform some changes that do not change anything without
requiring a ballot procedure, so I guess there´s nothing to
vote/discuss there. The change proposed by Ryan is just a
simple issue with the format and it´s not changing the
content nor anything else.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> Dimitris Zacharopoulos
(HARICA) <<a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dzacharo@harica.gr</a>>
<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 19 de octubre de 2023 13:26<br>
<b>Para:</b> Inigo Barreira <<a
href="mailto:Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com</a>>;
CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List
<<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Voting period begins:
Ballot SC-066: Fall 2023 Clean-up v2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="color:black">CAUTION: This email originated from
outside of the organization. Do not click links or open
attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
content is safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 19/10/2023 12:43 μ.μ., Inigo
Barreira via Servercert-wg wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">The voting period for this ballot has
started. Note that </span><a
href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/github.com/cabforum/servercert/issues/462___.YXAzOmRpZ2ljZXJ0OmE6bzpkNzA5N2FlMjBlMDk4NmRkY2NiY2JmNjRlMGI1NDJhOTo2OmQwZGU6ODNmNGU4MzdlYjdlM2NkMjk1MjZhZjYzMGE3N2FjNGQ3MjQzOWRkZDNmNjJhODRlMjIwMDViZGEwYjk1OTg3YzpoOkY"
title="Protected by Avanan: https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/issues/462"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">Inconsistent
document formatting (Markdown vs PDF) · Issue
#462 · cabforum/servercert (github.com)</span></a>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">will be
also included (it´s a format issue with no content
change).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
Inigo,<br>
<br>
You started the voting period on a specific ballot that
has a specific <a
href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/90a98dc7c1131eaab01af411968aa7330d315b9b...b72da7a87955aed81d14f9fe96ee222098fd4264___.YXAzOmRpZ2ljZXJ0OmE6bzpkNzA5N2FlMjBlMDk4NmRkY2NiY2JmNjRlMGI1NDJhOTo2OjJmNTc6MmVjNGFmY2RlODE2YjY5ZmMyODg2NGIxZjJlODMzNmFiN2I3ZGJlZjBkNGI0YTlkMGQxYzdkYmUzMmU5YTY3NzpoOkY"
title="Protected by Avanan: https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/90a98dc7c1131eaab01af411968aa7330d315b9b...b72da7a87955aed81d14f9fe96ee222098fd4264"
moz-do-not-send="true">redline</a>. That means you
cannot make any changes without invoking a new 7-days
discussion period. Unfortunately, since you started the
voting period there is nothing you can do but either let
the ballot fail or withdraw it. Withdrawing a ballot is a
new addition to the Bylaws in section 2.3 (4)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A
proposer may withdraw a ballot containing defective
language at any point during the voting period <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
According to the Bylaws, the voting period ends 7 days
after the voting starts, so that would be 7 days from
TODAY (2023-10-19), which means that the voting ends at <b>2023-10-26</b>.
The information at the bottom of the page should have been
updated.<br>
<br>
I'd appreciate a confirmation from at least another person
that is familiar with the Bylaws about whether my
interpretation is accurate or not.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Purpose of Ballot SC-66 v2</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">This ballot proposes updates to the
Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and
Management of Publicly-Trusted Certificates
related to the issues and typos that have happened
due to the different updates of the document. No
new normative requirements are introduced by the
changes in this ballot.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Notes: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">The
majority of these issues have been documented in
GitHub and have therefore labeled as cleanup and
have been the basis for this update.</span><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Some have
been provided by emails to the CABF lists and
included in this reviewed version because were
typos.</span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">The following motion has been
proposed by Iñigo Barreira of Sectigo. And,
endorsed by Aaron Gable of Let´s Encrypt<span
style="color:red"> </span>and Clint Wilson of
Apple.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">— Motion Begins —</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">This ballot modifies the “Baseline
Requirements for the Issuance and Management of
Publicly-Trusted Certificates” (“Baseline
Requirements”), based on Version 2.0.1.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">MODIFY the Baseline Requirements as
specified in the following Redline: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/90a98dc7c1131eaab01af411968aa7330d315b9b...b72da7a87955aed81d14f9fe96ee222098fd4264___.YXAzOmRpZ2ljZXJ0OmE6bzpkNzA5N2FlMjBlMDk4NmRkY2NiY2JmNjRlMGI1NDJhOTo2OjAwZTI6ZmMzNzJjNWNiNmIwMzhkYmQ3NjFmMjgzNmQ2NTNhZmExZGI3YzZkOWFjOTYwNDQ5MGNkZDg2MjgxNWU5YmI2ODpoOkY"
title="Protected by Avanan: https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/90a98dc7c1131eaab01af411968aa7330d315b9b...b72da7a87955aed81d14f9fe96ee222098fd4264"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/90a98dc7c1131eaab01af411968aa7330d315b9b...b72da7a87955aed81d14f9fe96ee222098fd4264</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">— Motion Ends —</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">This ballot proposes a Final
Maintenance Guideline. The procedure for approval
of this ballot is as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Discussion (7+ days)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">• Start time:
10-10-2023 22:00:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">• End time:
17-10-2023 22:00:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Vote for approval (7 days)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">• Start time:
18-10-2023 22:00:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-US">• End time:
25-10-2023 22:00:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Servercert-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg___.YXAzOmRpZ2ljZXJ0OmE6bzpkNzA5N2FlMjBlMDk4NmRkY2NiY2JmNjRlMGI1NDJhOTo2OmQyMGU6MTZiNGE4NmE1MTk4MjNmZTlhMzU2Yzk3NDA4ZTA0NDRlYTdjMDMzMjAxODliMzQ0NWI2ZTQ1YjRmZjk4OWFmNTpoOkY"
title="Protected by Avanan: https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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