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    Without agreeing with some parts of the justification around OCSP, I
    support the proposed changes and I believe they capture a fair
    meaning of Firewall and router "activities".<br>
    <br>
    I assume that the original authors couldn't decide on a minimum list
    of specific events that should be kept by CAs regarding firewalls
    and routers. For example, a router's CPU usage is a router activity,
    and some CAs monitor and produce graphs of CPU usage, just like they
    do for servers. However, there is no explicit requirement to capture
    the CPU usage for Certificate Systems, therefore listing explicit
    events that should be kept for firewalls and routers is very useful.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Thanks,<br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/9/2023 12:00 μ.μ., Martijn
      Katerbarg via Servercert-wg wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100018a8dc55b93-7468d86b-5a00-452f-a1a7-34d0cb61106a-000000@email.amazonses.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">During our last WebTrust audit cycle it
          became clear that our interpretation of “Firewall and router
          activities” and CPA Canada’s interpretation were meaningfully
          different. In particular it came to light that in its most
          aggressive possible interpretation, the actual logging of a
          firewall activity would itself constitute a firewall activity,
          which would itself require logging, as would the log of the
          log entry of that log entry, the log of this newest log entry,
          and etcetera into infinity. <span lang="EN-US">In our
            opinion, too</span> much “valid traffic” logging, makes it
          harder to find “bad traffic”<span lang="EN-US">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">We offer a simple rewrite to reflect the
          difference between valuable and necessary logged information
          and unproductive (and potentially absurd) logging. <span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">Similarly, several Certificate Consumers have
            expressed the wish to move away from OCSP, while, depending
            on interpretation of the language, CAs that do support OCSP
            may need to log every GET/POST request for OCSP responses,
            and keep this data for at least 2 years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">The
            requirement for CAs to monitor OCSP requests is the product
            of a different time, when thinking around OCSP was very
            different.  As privacy concerns and other structural
            weaknesses move the community away from its position on
            OCSP, it no longer makes sense to include requirements for
            CAs to watch and record OCSP requests.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Ballot
            SC-063 v4 </span><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">made</span><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> it
            optional for CAs to provide OCSP at all. (We recognize that
            there is still a root program requirement that pragmatically
            prevents CAs from eliminating OCSP, but within the scope of
            CABF requirements this is a critical change.)  For the BRs
            to strongly recommend (via this SHOULD requirement)
            monitoring OCSP is incongruous and out of keeping with
            current thinking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Even
            if we did want such monitoring to take place, any such
            requirement would present serious and perhaps insurmountable
            technical challenges:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">For
            a typical OCSP responder that is only aware of unexpired
            certificates, it's impossible to tell the difference between
            an "unused" serial number and the serial number of an
            expired certificate. To disambiguate would require the
            ongoing cross-referencing of OCSP responder logs against the
            CA's cert issuance logs, requiring additional code
            development and maintenance and significant production
            overhead.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Furthermore,
            as most OCSP services are fronted by CDNs, there's no
            guarantee that the CA will even have access to the full OCSP
            request logs. If the CA can't enumerate all the IP addresses
            of OCSP clients that send requests for "unused" serial
            numbers, then this vastly diminishes whatever value we
            attribute to this monitoring requirement. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">Our proposed changes are available for review
            on <a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/main...XolphinMartijn:servercert:LoggingRequirements"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/main...XolphinMartijn:servercert:LoggingRequirements</a></span><span
            style="mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">With this email I’m hoping to receive feedback
            and thoughts on this proposal.<br>
            <br>
            Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
            lang="EN-US">Sectigo</span><span
style="color:#212121;mso-ligatures:none;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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