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<span style="font-size: 12pt; margin: 0px; color: black; background-color: white;" class="ContentPasted0">Hi Ben,</span>
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Thanks for the invite, I would love to attend but have several conflicting meetings, would it be possible to have this call on Friday around the same time?</div>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; margin: 0px; color: black; background-color: white;" class="ContentPasted0">Paul</span><br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Ben Wilson <bwilson@mozilla.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 10, 2023 18:39<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul van Brouwershaven <Paul.vanBrouwershaven@entrust.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] Request for a Moratorium on New Certificate Consumer Members</font>
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<div>I've set up a call for those interested in discussing this. It's on Wednesday, 12-April-2023, at 1400 UTC.</div>
<div>I'll send out the dial-in/Zoom information separately for those interested.</div>
<div>Ben<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 3:22 PM Ben Wilson <<a href="mailto:bwilson@mozilla.com">bwilson@mozilla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Paul,</span></font></div>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">These are all things that I would like to discuss with those of you who are interested in helping to work on the membership requirements for Certificate Consumers in the Server Certificate WG.<span>
</span>Those of you who are interested, please send me email, and I'll set up a discussion.</span></font></p>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</span></font></p>
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<font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Ben<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 2:44 AM Paul van Brouwershaven <<a href="mailto:Paul.vanBrouwershaven@entrust.com" target="_blank">Paul.vanBrouwershaven@entrust.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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Hi Ben,</div>
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Here are some intial questions on your proposal.</div>
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> <span style="display:inline; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">That the Applicant develops and maintains its own code;</span></div>
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<span style="display:inline; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
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Can you explain what you mean with this, I suppose that this does not mean that Microsoft can no longer be a Certificate Consumer as their browser is based on Chromium? What would this say about the usage of Open-Source code, etc.?<br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> That the Applicant provides a browser for both mobile and desktop platforms;</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Certificate Consumers are Application Software Suppliers, and these are not limited to browsers. Why would a Certificate Consumer be required to provide an application for both mobile and desktop platforms?</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> That the Applicant has an installed user base of at least one tenth of a percent of all browsers in use globally (or some other comparable objective measurement);</div>
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This means that the CA/Browser Forum is excluding all browsers that would like to enter the market until they have a sufficient user base, which might take years for new browsers, or a browser might even choose to operate in a niche market, for example in a
specific demographic. While it is not required to be a Certificate Consumer Member to operate a browser or a root store, it feels like this is hindering new/niche browsers to participate on an equal level.</div>
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> That the Applicant and its representatives have never been sanctioned for misconduct;</div>
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Can you be more specific on "sanctioned for misconduct", for what and by who? This would currently mean that an employee of a certificate consumer would be sanctioned for life for any <span style="display:inline; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">misconduct<span> of
any form, which can be irrelevant for the CA/Browser forum, we probably should provide a path to rehabilitation in the aftermath of misconduct in a way that recognizes the humanity of those involved.</span></span><br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> That the Applicant has actively participated in the CA/Browser Forum as a non-voting Associate Member for at least one year.</div>
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What is the purpose of this requirement, we don't have this requirement for certificate issuers.</div>
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Thanks,</div>
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Paul</div>
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<div id="x_m_-4884151536322693861m_6013386599819874066divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
on behalf of Ben Wilson via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 5, 2023 18:30<br>
<b>To:</b> CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] Request for a Moratorium on New Certificate Consumer Members</font>
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<div><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">All,</span></font></div>
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<p dir="ltr" id="x_m_-4884151536322693861m_6013386599819874066x_gmail-docs-internal-guid-04c649a2-7fff-64c7-f381-fd36ae34c53a" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:12pt">
<font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">I would like to request a
moratorium on admitting new Certificate Consumer members to the Server Certificate Working Group until we have updated the criteria for membership of Certificate Consumers.</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">The
basis for this request is that we are in the process of developing better criteria for membership of Certificate Consumers. As noted during Face-to-Face meeting #58, our current requirement of “produc[ing] a software product intended for use by the general
public for browsing the Web securely” lacks sufficient detail. Here are a few things we are considering that should be part of the membership criteria for Certificate Consumers:</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant develops and maintains its own code;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant maintains its own root store;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant provides a browser for both mobile and desktop platforms;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant patches and delivers automatic updates of its browser software and root store;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant has publicly disclosed and documented processes for its users to report problems and to receive updates on the resolution of those problems;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant has an installed user base of at least one tenth of a percent of all browsers in use globally (or some other comparable objective measurement);</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant employs developers and infosec-trained professionals;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant’s representatives regularly, consistently, and actively participate in relevant standards bodies such as the W3C, IETF, WHATWG, and OWASP;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant and its representatives have never been sanctioned for misconduct;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant has a good history of compliance with industry standards, including but not limited to HTML (</span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://platform.html5.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!Ypa5WQHN2FbZUYE7Kjs1Lm1fL3oRd24UBjDyVngBxMiVnOxRmyqQtMzEv8h1TC7QxqctX2YlUpiW8WiW1vjLTb4ekfWZTPL5ytmb$" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none; font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:underline; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap">https://platform.html5.org</span></a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">);
CSS (</span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/TR/css-2023/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!Ypa5WQHN2FbZUYE7Kjs1Lm1fL3oRd24UBjDyVngBxMiVnOxRmyqQtMzEv8h1TC7QxqctX2YlUpiW8WiW1vjLTb4ekfWZTE2pxyS5$" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none; font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:underline; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap">https://www.w3.org/TR/css-2023/</span></a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">);
JavaScript, HTTPS/TLS, and the IETF RFCs, such as RFC 5280;</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant’s browser passes at least certain percentages of various test suites (Acid Tests, Test 262 and web-platform-tests);</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:12pt; margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant has a published commitment to user security and privacy; and</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">That
the Applicant has actively participated in the CA/Browser Forum as a non-voting Associate Member for at least one year.</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</span></font></p>
<p style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif">Ben</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:transparent; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap; font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></font></p>
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</span></font></p>
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