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    Similarly with Aaron, I support the intent of this ballot but have
    similar concerns about the terms used in the ballot.<br>
    <br>
    Back in May 2021, I sent <a moz-do-not-send="true"
      href="https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/netsec/2021-May/000449.html">this
      message</a> to the NetSec Subcommittee referring to RFC 3647 for
    guidance on the use of the terms "audit log" and "records archival".
    In my understanding the authors of RFC 3647 were trying to capture
    two different sets of "evidence". Each set would need to define the
    "types of events recorded/types of records archived", the "retention
    period", the "protection" controls, and the "backup" controls.<br>
    <br>
    I understand that RFC3647 has a different meaning in the term
    "archival" (used in the phrase "records archival") compared to this
    ballot. <br>
    <br>
    Based on 3647, sections 5.4 and 5.5 are complementary and
    symmetrical. With that said, it appears that 5.5.2 repeats what is
    already required in 5.4.3 (1.), (2.) and (3.). I'm fine with
    repeating important text but I'm concerned that this might cause
    some confusion. We should probably clarify these terms a little
    better.<br>
    <br>
    I would also like to propose that a NOTE is added at the end of
    sections 5.4.3 and 5.5.2:<br>
    <br>
    In 5.4.3:<br>
    <br>
    "<strong>Note:</strong> While these Requirements set the minimum
    retention period, the CA MAY choose a greater value as more
    appropriate in order to be able to investigate possible security or
    other types of incidents that will require retrospection and
    examination of past audit log events."<br>
    <br>
    In 5.5.2:<br>
    <br>
    "<strong>Note:</strong> While these Requirements set the minimum
    retention period, the CA MAY choose a greater value as more
    appropriate in order to be able to investigate possible security or
    other types of incidents that will require retrospection and
    examination of past records archived."<br>
    <br>
    I would even recommend changing the MAY into a SHOULD if others
    agree.<br>
    <br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/1/2022 10:50 μ.μ., Aaron Gable
      via Servercert-wg wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100017e741ace42-9196afd8-edfa-4255-b426-50ada5261943-000000@email.amazonses.com">
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        <div>I fully support the intent of this ballot, but upon close
          reading I have some slight concern.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        Although this ballot brings the definitions from the NCSSRs
        directly into the BRs, those definitions do not include a
        definition of the words "retain" or "archive". This causes me
        some confusion.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>My reading of the structure of this ballot is essentially:</div>
        <div>1) A CA must record events X, Y, Z to an audit log<br>
          2) A CA must retain those audit logs for 2 years after A, B, C<br>
          3) A CA must archive records X, Y, Z, W, V<br>
          4) A CA must retain archives for 2 years after A, B, C<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>With no functional definition of the word "archive", it is
          unclear what the purpose of having both of these sections at
          all is. With the exception of the additional numbered items
          5.2.2.(4) and 5.2.2.(5), the two sections appear to be
          essentially identical. A CA which stores all required records
          on a single hard drive appears to be equally in compliance
          with both sections. So why have both sections at all?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Additionally, I find the phrasing of Section 5.5.1 to be
          unfortunate: it contains two sentences, both of which start
          "The CA and each Delegated Third Party SHALL archive records
          related to...". These should be combined into a single
          bulleted list, much as Section 5.5.2 does.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Aaron</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 11:02
          AM Clint Wilson via Servercert-wg <<a
            href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div><span
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">This
              email begins the discussion period for Ballot SC51: </span><font
              face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                style="font-size:11px">Reduce and Clarify Audit Log and
                Records Archival Retention Requirements</span></font><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
            <br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
            <font face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                style="font-size:11px">BALLOT SC51: Reduce and Clarify
                Audit Log and Records Archival Retention Requirements</span></font><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
            <br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
            <span
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">PURPOSE
              OF BALLOT</span><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
            <font face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                style="font-size:11px"><br>
                The purpose of this ballot is to consolidate and clarify
                aspects of audit log and records archival retention
                expectations and time-periods within 5.5.2.</span></font>
            <div><font face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                  style="font-size:11px"><br>
                  Foremost, this ballot reduces retention periods for
                  records archival to 2 years.<br>
                  Further, currently audit log events as outlined in
                  section 5.4.1, and then referenced in 5.4.3 lead to
                  confusion around the log retention that is defined and
                  exclusive to each section, and how that retention
                  feeds into records archival requirements. To further
                  clarify the objectives of that interaction, an
                  explicit requirement has been introduced in
                  5.5.1 stating that CAs must archive lifecycle event
                  records.<br>
                  <br>
                  As minor adjustments to related requirements, this
                  ballot also clarifies what is expected by the term
                  “OCSP Entries” as a logged lifecycle event; as
                  OCSP Entry is an undefined term, this was replaced
                  with OCSP Response such that it should be clear that a
                  CA will be logging the event of signing an
                  OCSP Response (including the elements stipulated in
                  5.4.1). Similarly, some certificate lifecycle events
                  expected to be retained are currently separated into
                  5.5.2; these have been incorporated into
                  5.4.1 instead. This ballot also explicitly calls out
                  the need for delegated third parties to abide by the
                  established retention periods for audit logging and
                  records archival procedures.</span></font>
              <div><font face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                    style="font-size:11px">This ballot also formalizes
                    incorporation of terms defined in the NCSSRs as also
                    applying to the BRs.</span></font></div>
              <div>
                <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Menlo-Regular"
                    color="#000000"><span style="font-size:11px"><br>
                    </span></font></div>
                <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Menlo-Regular"
                    color="#000000"><span style="font-size:11px">MOTION</span></font></div>
                <div><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">The
                    following motion has been proposed by Clint Wilson
                    of Apple and endorsed by Trevoli Ponds-White of
                    Amazon and Dustin Hollenback of Microsoft.</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">-----Motion
                    Begins-----</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">This
                    ballot modifies the “Baseline Requirements for the
                    Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted
                    Certificates” as defined in the following redline,
                    based on Version 1.8.0:</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <font face="Menlo-Regular" color="#000000"><span
                      style="font-size:11px"><a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/cda0f92ee70121fd5d692685b97ebb6669c74fb7...63dc6210e728349bb4602e4ede051efed593a91c"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/servercert/compare/cda0f92ee70121fd5d692685b97ebb6669c74fb7...63dc6210e728349bb4602e4ede051efed593a91c</a></span></font></div>
                <div><font color="#000000"><span><br
                        style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                    </span></font><span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">-----Motion
                    Ends-----</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">This
                    ballot proposes a Final Maintenance Guideline. The
                    procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">Discussion
                    (7+ days)</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">Start
                    Time: January 13 2022 19:00 UTC</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">End
                    Time: January 20 2022 19:00 UTC</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">Vote
                    for approval (7 days)</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">Start
                    Time: TBD</span><br
                    style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">
                  <span
                    style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px">End
                    Time: TBD</span></div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
          <a
            href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Servercert-wg mailing list
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</pre>
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