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Hi Jaime.  Ooh, you're right!  The affected OpenSSL versions generate the same predictable moduli regardless of the public exponent value.</div>

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So yes, the optimal approach seems to be for CAs to use Debian weak key blocklists that are based on only the RSA modulus.</div>

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Corey's point applies if a CA chooses instead to implement a Debian weak key blocklist of (for example) SubjectPublicKeyInfos with public exponent 65537.</div>

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What's the best way to capture all this in the ballot?</div>

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<b>From:</b> Jaime Hablutzel<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 24, 2021 23:25<br>

<b>To:</b> Rob Stradling; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<br>

<b>Cc:</b> Corey Bonnell; Christopher Kemmerer<br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL]-Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys

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<div dir="ltr">Hi, I might be (very) wrong here, but, shouldn’t blocklists be based only on the RSA modulus for different key sizes so validation implementations match the module only irrespective of whatever the public exponent is? or does the affected prime

 generation random source seed from the public exponent too?<br>

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<div>On 22 Oct 2021, at 08:58, Rob Stradling via Servercert-wg <servercert-wg@cabforum.org> wrote:</div>

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> ...my opinion is that we should introduce a new requirement such that CAs must check for Debian weak keys for all RSA modulus lengths and exponents that they accept. CAs are uniquely positioned to prevent the usage of these weak keys in the web PKI, so there

 is a security benefit in mandating such universal checks.</div>

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Hi Corey.  Yeah, OK.  You've persuaded me.</div>

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<span class="">FWIW, my tools at<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_CVE-2D2008-2D0166&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=gZAtYdIgwjZ_F9FpjPlUFmh9SQve9WXOyzZCTDLhsH4&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166</a> only

 support 65537 at the moment.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see if anyone asks for other public exponent values to be supported. <span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="x_🙂" class="">🙂</span></span></div>

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<b class="">From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Corey Bonnell<br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 19, 2021 19:48<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling; Christopher Kemmerer; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys

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Hi Rob,</div>

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Comments inline.</div>

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><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">AFAICT, in the affected Debian OpenSSL versions:</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">  - "openssl req -newkey" had a hardcoded public exponent of 65537 (see </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_openssl_openssl_blob_OpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f_apps_req.c-23L768&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=Vu5UXlPv7euZNJXCO15ReMLK_k5MyC3YaUliVn6DQcU&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/apps/req.c#L768</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">).</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">  - "openssl genrsa" defaulted to 65537, but provided a "-3" command-line option to use a public exponent of 3 instead (see </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_openssl_openssl_blob_OpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f_apps_genrsa.c&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=MXbwubefERoNQfWd4kC0f7rxRrBl5yB1YZ2Y3OmPQoo&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/apps/genrsa.c</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">).</span></div>

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As you point out, the command-line tooling bundled with OpenSSL 0,9.8 generally restricted the allowed exponent. However, the RSA key generation API allowed any exponent to be specified [1], so it is possible that a custom application passed exponent values

 besides 3 or 65537 to the RSA key generation function.</div>

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><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Are there any good reasons to continue to permit the public exponent 3 ?</span></div>

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Judging from Censys, it appears that there are some publicly trusted certificates containing RSA keys with an exponent of 3, so there will presumably be a (minor) ecosystem impact if an exponent value of 3 were banned. That being said, exponents smaller than

 65537 are outside the SHOULD-level exponent range since BR v1.1.3 (now in section 6.1.6) so perhaps it’s time to consider strengthening the SHOULD to a MUST. Probably such a change would be outside the scope of this ballot, though.</div>

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><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The "openssl-vulnkey" tool that Debian used to ship only provided blocklists for keys with public exponents of 65537, so should we take that as a sign that CAs needn't perform

 a Debian weak key check when the public exponent is anything other than 65537 ?</span></div>

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While the precedent set by accepted remediations for incidents surrounding Debian weak keys has been for CAs to check the lists distributed in the openssl-blacklist Debian package, my opinion is that we should introduce a new requirement such that CAs must

 check for Debian weak keys for all RSA modulus lengths and exponents that they accept. CAs are uniquely positioned to prevent the usage of these weak keys in the web PKI, so there is a security benefit in mandating such universal checks.</div>

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Thanks,</div>

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Corey</div>

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[1]<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_openssl_openssl_blob_OpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f_crypto_rsa_rsa-5Fgen.c-23L78&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=BZt9wGuErHLlj4PgA-Q_BWX-TmBE7NrL_QZcjyFCmLs&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/crypto/rsa/rsa_gen.c#L78</a></div>

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<b class="">From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling <<a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">rob@sectigo.com</a>><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 19, 2021 11:31 AM<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer <<a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">chris@ssl.com</a>>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion

 List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>; Corey Bonnell <<a href="mailto:Corey.Bonnell@digicert.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">Corey.Bonnell@digicert.com</a>><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Hi Corey.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">AFAICT, in the affected Debian OpenSSL versions:</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">  - "openssl req -newkey" had a hardcoded public exponent of 65537 (see </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_openssl_openssl_blob_OpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f_apps_req.c-23L768&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=Vu5UXlPv7euZNJXCO15ReMLK_k5MyC3YaUliVn6DQcU&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/apps/req.c#L768</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">).</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">  - "openssl genrsa" defaulted to 65537, but provided a "-3" command-line option to use a public exponent of 3 instead (see </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_openssl_openssl_blob_OpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f_apps_genrsa.c&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=MXbwubefERoNQfWd4kC0f7rxRrBl5yB1YZ2Y3OmPQoo&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/apps/genrsa.c</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">).</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Are there any good reasons to continue to permit the public exponent 3 ?</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The "openssl-vulnkey" tool that Debian used to ship only provided blocklists for keys with public exponents of 65537, so should we take that as a sign that CAs needn't perform a Debian weak key check when the public exponent

 is anything other than 65537 ?</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Servercert-wg <</span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a><span class="" style="">>

 on behalf of Corey Bonnell via Servercert-wg <</span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><span class="" style="">><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>19 October 2021 15:31<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer <</span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">chris@ssl.com</a><span class="" style="">>; CA/B Forum

 Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <</span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><span class="" style="">><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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Hi Chris,</div>

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Apologies for the late reply. I noticed that the current proposed language has no guidance regarding RSA exponents. I think it would be useful to specify the expectations in this regard (whether the CA must check for weak keys for all key lengths and exponent

 combinations accepted/supported by the CA, or if checking weak key lists for only exponents 3 and 65537 is sufficient, etc.).</div>

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Thanks,</div>

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Corey</div>

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<b class="">From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On

 Behalf Of<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Christopher Kemmerer via Servercert-wg<br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling <<a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">rob@sectigo.com</a>>; Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <<a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">dzacharo@harica.gr</a>>;

 CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>; Jacob Hoffman-Andrews <<a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">jsha@letsencrypt.org</a>><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</div>

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<p class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:12pt">Thank you, Rob, and shall watch for that update. Meanwhile we are doing a final-final pass through our draft language for clarity and will send it early next week.</p>

<p class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:12pt">Chris K<br class="">

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Meanwhile, we've cycled our draft language through  another review and have made IIRC only one or two minor edits for clarity (h/t BenW).</p>

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On 10/14/2021 9:49 AM, Rob Stradling wrote:</div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Today I rediscovered that I'd previously generated the RSA-8192 blocklists back in December 2009, and that they're still available at<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fsecure.sectigo.com-252Fdebian-5Fweak-5Fkeys-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987811664-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DBknvgeWEnZ4pvV0PZHrsqaYgYgzgs4wad1Y3lmy1FWk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=zzVoaIwOBGmJbK59JUU8ZW6-rpOfDM9LW4-DOaggMQQ&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://secure.sectigo.com/debian_weak_keys/</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">. 

 When I compared the old and new RSA-8192 blocklists, I found that ~0.8% of the "rnd" keys are different.  It looks like, for reasons unknown, the "OpenSSL random file state" misbehaved occasionally over the 8 month run that ended recently.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">I'll report back once I've regenerated and verified the problematic keys.</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><rob@sectigo.com></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>23 September 2021 19:17<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><span class="" style="">; CA/B Forum

 Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style="">; Rob Stradling</span><a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><rob@sectigo.com></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> BTW, in case it helps, I'm about half way through generating a full set of RSA-8192 Debian weak keys, which (when complete) I'll add to the<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987811664-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DhEYtpXP81bOYFl0bdDSzbg8zxn7gozJ2bXAzE3ZPLwQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=CZuzMqYs2tJKnr9PUCkV8xEr-EQLZuEnpygT0nUUNYQ&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>repositories.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">It took nearly 8 months (using just a single core of a fairly modest CPU), but it finally finished!  Repositories updated.</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>on

 behalf of Rob Stradling via Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>13 May 2021 15:42<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><span class="" style="">; CA/B Forum

 Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> iii) All RSA Public Key lengths supported by the CA up to and including 4096 bits;</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> ...</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> For Debian weak keys not covered above, the CA SHALL take actions to minimize the probability of certificate issuance.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Hi Christopher.  What sort of "actions" are envisaged here?  If a CA is processing a certificate request that contains a (for example) RSA-4088 public key (i.e., a key size not covered by an available Debian weak list),

 either the CA is going to issue the cert or they're not.  What, concretely, does "minimize the probability of certificate issuance" actually mean?</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Why not remove that "SHALL" sentence and change point iii to: "<span class="" style="background-color:white">iii) All RSA Public Key lengths supported by the CA." ?</span></span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">BTW, in case it helps, I'm about half way through generating a full set of RSA-8192 Debian weak keys, which (when complete) I'll add to the<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987821618-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D34YXT3egxh7Xtc5k5gqy8idcbz9cgokAIz7o8Xwbh94-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=taqinDAOLRdSvETy9ob78hR_-KPxttqWcUNY_M86mTY&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> repositories.</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>13 May 2021 15:12<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><rob@sectigo.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><span class="" style="">; CA/B Forum

 Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Hello,</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">We deeply appreciate the useful discussion in this thread regarding this issue. We especially applaud the efforts of HARICA and Sectigo to independently generate more comprehensive lists of potentially affected Debian weak

 keys. As Rob Stradling observed through his crt.sh research (20210107,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgist.github.com-252Frobstradling-252Fa5590b6a13218fe561dcb5d5c67932c5-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987821618-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DQXz4cOmARv-252Fg8-252FJF2NNEW2-252BSbjHJu1pv8X6vjLCx7io-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=EARvfcpJ6O_cJ0KioLW9U0gNj00u2-_njjGSKcTRtE8&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://gist.github.com/robstradling/a5590b6a13218fe561dcb5d5c67932c5</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">)

 of the five most utilized algorithm/key size populations, two are ECC (so not impacted by the Debian weak key issue) and three are RSA (2048, 4096, and 3072 bit length, in that order).</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">As of their most recent messages it appears that these two organizations have independently generated comprehensive lists identifying all RSA-2048 and -4096 bit length keys. (We understand RSA-3072 length keys are also available.)

 This offers the possibility that complete lists, if accepted as authoritative, could be accessed by the community to help prevent exploitation of this vulnerability.</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">It was also noted (by the representative from Let's Encrypt) that the ROCA vulnerability is presently identified through use of a tool supported externally. It was suggested that this resource be archived in a manner that

 ensures availability. (Our proposed language points to "</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252Fcrocs-2Dmuni-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987831575-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DZQMlATqs-252BM7Vr3aIgjdrH06gaOrkgAPTbMkM4gcSROs-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=goTnhfES-zV16ifNjJ90Y_GUk39wftGwqMJiZKuw5aY&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/crocs-muni/</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">roca

 or equivalent.")</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">We think our present ballot language (reproduced at the end of this message) provides appropriately focused guidance to CAs. If available, we'd certainly like to also see the HARICA/Sectigo lists (which CAs could use for

 the majority of Debian weak key use cases) captured somewhere in this ballot language. We are agnostic as to 1) where exactly these resources might be maintained and 2) where this ballot places directions to these resources - an annex to the current requirements,

 a separate CA/BF guidance document or within Sections 4.9.1.1/6.1.1.3.</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Our intent is to ensure that 1) clear, accurate guidance on CA expectations is provided and 2) any resources assisting CAs in meeting these expectations are fully described, publicly available (somewhere) and with reliable

 links provided. The language below, we feel, meets the first requirement. We'd appreciate input on how to best meet the second. (Note that<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://ssl.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">SSL.com</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>would

 be happy to support the community by hosting any of these as publicly accessible resources, whether solo or alongside other organizations.)</span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Chris K</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun"><a href="http://ssl.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">SSL.com</a></span></p>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">=====</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">--- Motion Begins ---</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">This ballot modifies the “Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted Certificates” as follows, based on Version 1.7.4:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Proposed ballot language:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun"><b class="">4.9.1.1 Reasons for Revoking a Subscriber Certificate</b></span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Replace:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">4. The CA is made aware of a demonstrated or proven method that can easily compute the Subscriber’s Private Key based on the Public Key in the Certificate (such as a Debian weak key, see<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwiki.debian.org-252FSSLkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987831575-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DpXeTXYoS8oYMQteThIRSdhISQokGG4nL-252BHSymGxAwPg-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=ZtytHt-KbbrRxo2oN_oCa2ihhQEPcupL52pOSa3xs9U&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">)</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">With:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">4. The CA is made aware of a demonstrated or proven method that can easily compute the Subscriber’s Private Key (such as those identified in 6.1.1.3(4)).</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">---</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun"><b class="">6.1.1.3. Subscriber Key Pair Generation</b></span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">Replace:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">The CA SHALL reject a certificate request if one or more of the following conditions are met:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">1. The Key Pair does not meet the requirements set forth in Section 6.1.5 and/or Section 6.1.6;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">2. There is clear evidence that the specific method used to generate the Private Key was flawed;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">3. The CA is aware of a demonstrated or proven method that exposes the Applicant's Private Key to compromise;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">4. The CA has previously been made aware that the Applicant's Private Key has suffered a Key Compromise, such as through the provisions of Section 4.9.1.1;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">5. The CA is aware of a demonstrated or proven method to easily compute the Applicant's Private Key based on the Public Key (such as a Debian weak key, see<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwiki.debian.org-252FSSLkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987831575-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DpXeTXYoS8oYMQteThIRSdhISQokGG4nL-252BHSymGxAwPg-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=ZtytHt-KbbrRxo2oN_oCa2ihhQEPcupL52pOSa3xs9U&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">).</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">With:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">The CA SHALL reject a certificate request if one or more of the following occurs:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">1) The requested Public Key does not meet the requirements set forth in Sections 6.1.5 and/or 6.1.6;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">2) The CA is aware of a demonstrated or proven method that exposes the Subscriber's Private Key to compromise;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">3) The CA has previously been made aware that the Subscriber's Private Key has suffered a Key Compromise, such as through the provisions of Section 4.9.1.1;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">4) The Public Key corresponds to an industry demonstrated weak Private Key, in particular:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

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<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">a) In the case of ROCA vulnerability, the CA SHALL reject keys identified by the tools available at<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252Fcrocs-2Dmuni-252Froca-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987841531-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DpVWa4-252Fu9mO6gfEAN2FHOMx83i-252FGSUcG-252BfzyDoHm1xKs-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=6j9rei_kmtaqpNr-93i7Jp1C7q5YNaJtJJ2z3Rn5FzE&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/crocs-muni/roca</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun"><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>or

 equivalent.</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">b) In the case of Debian weak keys (</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwiki.debian.org-252FSSLkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987841531-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DfJSWwzvoeepBzwSexsg-252FFSKZKusdynxlt-252F1gItUiii0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=7VJmjfUviaQVQ3rIxm7xE-dFcYL1TLUk2yNWY4hFx0U&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys</a><span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">),

 the CA SHALL reject at least keys generated by the flawed OpenSSL version with the combination of the following parameters:</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">i) Big-endian 32-bit, little-endian 32-bit, and little-endian 64-bit architecture;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">ii) Process ID of 0 to 32767, inclusive;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">iii) All RSA Public Key lengths supported by the CA up to and including 4096 bits;</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">iv) rnd, nornd, and noreadrnd OpenSSL random file state.</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">For Debian weak keys not covered above, the CA SHALL take actions to minimize the probability of certificate issuance.</span><span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></div>

</div>

<div class="">

<p class="x_x_xxxxparagraph" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxeop"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; vertical-align:baseline">

<span class="x_x_xxxxnormaltextrun">--- Motion Ends ---</span></div>

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<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

On 1/18/2021 3:34 PM, Rob Stradling wrote:</div>

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<blockquote class="" style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">

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<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> I'm mid-way through generating the RSA-4096 keys.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

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<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The RSA-4096 private keys and blocklists are now in<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fprivate-5Fkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987851488-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3Dt2XnHbMAXRIJHGzz-252BLi4gptSfi957l-252Fkz5fcaUc4PxA-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=iSbz-XCr-uFk_7Y8gJ0DA2ii9QYdRcBI5WcrvGeE55Q&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/private_keys</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> and</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fopenssl-5Fblocklists-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987851488-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D-252B-252Fmznq3F0GbWZjrE1G08DqSXBOxYTLtIF1l7pLatjoU-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=-tHYY-qeEG6kULte0FSWXNcttvh6n3BUnjh8PTDXi-c&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/openssl_blocklists</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">.</span></div>

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<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

</div>

<div class="">

<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The RSA-2048 and RSA-4096 private keys in </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FHARICA-2Dofficial-252Fdebian-2Dweak-2Dkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987861437-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DFb5kG1Ob413KX19BP-252B37xpIahSiKi2FIZ5NfuZ-252FkuPU-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=_lfhBqavAtNpmBCedDWRhR5JY_praNbAngJx0m7i14E&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/HARICA-official/debian-weak-keys</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> (which

 only covers 2 of the 3 word size / endianness combinations) are identical to the equivalents in </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fprivate-5Fkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987861437-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DoDDkulWGG70BklQLLMR0GsX-252FRIy20y-252FKtw9gGijGyhE-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=yAkqXLZo2IvXlCZvKvbFvweWp1zicZGNjpQ-S6gHQbY&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/private_keys</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">.</span></div>

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<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

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<div class="x_x_MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; text-align:center">

<hr size="2" width="98%" align="center" class="">

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<div id="x_x_x_x_x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" class="">

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>14 January 2021 18:39<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><rob@sectigo.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style="">; Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

 </p>

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<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:12pt; background-color:rgb(250,250,3)">

<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

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 </p>

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<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

On 14/1/2021 12:30 π.μ., Rob Stradling wrote:</div>

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<div class="" style="margin:0px 0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Thanks Dmitris.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">So far I've generated the RSA-2048 and RSA-3072 keys using<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fkey-5Fgenerator-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987871399-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D4kKGwenlWGRmGjkIWofWWWnykgyNAgmJj1knMJ9PFz4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=NAsWm8iu6UPJcqogRr7ZHylAINg9o87jFWyCbM_GxlE&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/key_generator</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> and

 uploaded them to<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fprivate-5Fkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987871399-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DDS2Fb707J-252BWD3UlBsOMtUWBl-252B5JkoU3S9twMJn8eSps-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=wLahGmkoShePVAd3354Vg-KIUIG_bUnevY1465It5Jk&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/private_keys</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">,

 and I've generated the corresponding blocklists and uploaded them to<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FCVE-2D2008-2D0166-252Fopenssl-5Fblocklists-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987871399-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DJtYLdAD8pwpvivoIfMXAeEjofoK0FqoijWEb4Sc9OV4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=NrxlbUT4xWxoifiZhepNwMg-9wFwdQwvVmKKxNVBuk8&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://github.com/CVE-2008-0166/openssl_blocklists</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">. 

 My RSA-2048 blocklists exactly match the ones from the original Debian openssl-blacklist package.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">I'm mid-way through generating the RSA-4096 keys.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Let's compare keys when we're both done. <span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">🙂</span></div>

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<br class="">

Certainly :-) the RSA-2048 keys already match the fingerprints from the openssl-blacklist Debian package.<br class="">

<br class="">

We did this work several months ago but never found the time to make it publicly available. We managed to break down the big task and run jobs in parallel which made things a bit more interesting.<br class="">

<br class="">

It's nice we did this independently, I guess it increases the accuracy level of the resulted keys :)<br class="">

<br class="">

<br class="">

Cheers,<br class="">

Dimitris.<br class="">

<br class="">

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>13 January 2021 21:49<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rob Stradling<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:rob@sectigo.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><rob@sectigo.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style="">; Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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Dear friends,<br class="">

<br class="">

HARICA has generated the weak keys (RSA 2048 and 4096 bit lengths) from the vulnerable openssl package. We will generate 3072 bit keys as well and add them soon. The methodology is described in the following GitHub repo along with the produced keys:</div>

<ul type="disc" class="" style="margin-bottom:0in; margin-top:0in">

<li class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FHARICA-2Dofficial-252Fdebian-2Dweak-2Dkeys-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987881346-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D61WsoKxsDa5-252FjBab75Y-252FZG4PbcoE3RVkCWg-252BsfY2Aww-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=dWL9G_dD07M3-kQ4faHXjdMzoGF9wF5hEGlN2IrPwiA&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/HARICA-official/debian-weak-keys</a></li></ul>

<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0px 0in 12pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

Please review and let us know if you spot any issues or problems with our approach and methodology.<br class="">

<br class="">

As always, please use other people's work at your own risk.<br class="">

<br class="">

<br class="">

Dimitris.</p>

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On 7/1/2021 2:25 μ.μ., Rob Stradling via Servercert-wg wrote:</div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">I've used crt.sh to produce a survey of key algorithms/sizes in currently unexpired, publicly-trusted server certificates:</span></div>

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<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgist.github.com-252Frobstradling-252Fa5590b6a13218fe561dcb5d5c67932c5-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987881346-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D4qveGxYahVQ6FbihVosw69bsGUs7hG1ytgI6YLxqYbY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=0JiuTeERFFPZRGiB5foBRJZ5kJjHk51DCLjQbBVwSxc&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://gist.github.com/robstradling/a5590b6a13218fe561dcb5d5c67932c5</span></a></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The four most popular choices are no surprise: RSA-2048, P-256, RSA-4096, and P-384.  openssl-blacklist covers RSA-2048 and RSA-4096, and ECC keys are implicitly not Debian weak keys.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Fifth most popular is RSA-3072, with over 3 million unexpired, publicly-trusted server certs.  openssl-blacklist doesn't cover RSA-3072, but ISTM that this is a key size that CAs will want to permit.</span></div>

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<p class="x_x_xmsonormal" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>

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<div class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Some of the lesser used key sizes are mostly likely due to Subscriber typos (e.g., 2408 and 3048 were probably intended to be 2048, 4048 was probably intended to be either 2048 or 4096, etc), but some of the other ones

 look like they were deliberately chosen (e.g., 2432 is 2048+384).  Is it worth generating Debian weak keys/blocklists for any of these key sizes?</span></div>

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<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fnvlpubs.nist.gov-252Fnistpubs-252FSpecialPublications-252FNIST.SP.800-2D57pt1r5.pdf-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987891313-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DrG1bgcAgL7P3RtCaCJ0cZTcYPkcUhTlsR4J6ulGFgso-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=zehaaELHzHzxLDM3dCTeAYaSLMufH4svdbHT74RDcq0&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.800-57pt1r5.pdf</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> (Table

 4, p59) permits RSA-2048 until the end of 2030, whereas </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.sogis.eu-252Fdocuments-252Fcc-252Fcrypto-252FSOGIS-2DAgreed-2DCryptographic-2DMechanisms-2D1.2.pdf-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987891313-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DgCbutfTj362g-252BHqbrbYgcpm5etqbhCvUFpp8E2UYinE-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=2FZ19CpL6_a-dWd0zh1d-4HiMpn4pWyZ0lsH3f1k140&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">https://www.sogis.eu/documents/cc/crypto/SOGIS-Agreed-Cryptographic-Mechanisms-1.2.pd

 f</span></a><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"> permits RSA-2048 only until the end of 2025.  It is of course possible that quantum computing will render RSA obsolete before Subscribers need to think about which larger RSA keysize they want to migrate to;

 however, it seems prudent to also plan for the possibility that RSA will survive and that some other RSA keysize(s) might become popular.</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>on

 behalf of Rob Stradling via Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>06 January 2021 16:08<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jacob Hoffman-Andrews<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jsha@letsencrypt.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><jsha@letsencrypt.org></a><span class="" style="">;

 Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style="">; CA/B Forum Server Certificate

 WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Jacob wrote:</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> Lastly, I think we should archive openssl-blacklist, and include in the BRs: "A CA may reject the full set of Debian weak keys by rejecting this superset of the Debian weak keys:</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> </span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> - All RSA public keys with modulus lengths other than 2048 or 4096, and</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> - All RSA public keys with exponents other than 65537, and</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Hi Jacob.  65537 (aka 0x10001) is hard-coded here...</span></div>

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<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252Fopenssl-252Fopenssl-252Fblob-252FOpenSSL-5F0-5F9-5F8f-252Fapps-252Freq.c-2523L768-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987901266-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DMjzoFnz2Q1-252FymsUTPaNkRR0zmeC0jZEVY-252Bbs22FkiQs-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=clcpqaTdvKaQ2wkvpJ_9htDrsd52SxppT1gw723qh2I&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; background-color:white">https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/OpenSSL_0_9_8f/apps/req.c#L768</span></a></p>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Would it therefore be fair to say that keys with public exponents other than 65537 are implicitly<u class="">not</u> Debian weak keys?</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">> - All RSA public keys that are detected as vulnerable by the openssl-vulnkey program in the openssl-blacklist package version 0.5-3 (see addendum), or an equivalent program."</span></div>

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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>on

 behalf of Jacob Hoffman-Andrews via Servercert-wg<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>12 December 2020 02:21<br class="">

<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Kemmerer<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:chris@ssl.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><chris@ssl.com></a><span class="" style="">;

 CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class=""><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><span class="" style=""><br class="">

<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Servercert-wg] SCXX Ballot proposal: Debian Weak keys</span></div>

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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span></div>

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Thanks for your continued efforts to improve this part of the BRs! Let's Encrypt is in theory interested in endorsing, but I think it still needs a bit of work. Thanks for incorporating my most recent comments on endianness and word size vs 11 platforms.<br class="">

<br class="">

Goals: We want CAs to consistently not issue certificates for weak keys in general, and also in the specific case of Debian and ROCA keys. We want the definition of Debian and ROCA keys to be clear and actionable for as long as possible - say, at least twenty

 years.<br class="">

<br class="">

We have three ways to specify Debian and ROCA keys: With a list, with a tool, or with an algorithm*. The original revision of this ballot proposed to use a list (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Flists.cabforum.org-252Fpipermail-252Fservercert-2Dwg-252F2020-2DApril-252F001821.html-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987901266-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DcpLY6xrC2ygCfIc1C4qGSWoC6YokanwBtNV3rRKfHjI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=Cq74OljQxYjQB9r8uG_BAHEGm1OkBbqKvS_0shafvCk&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://lists.cabforum.org/pipermail/servercert-wg/2020-April/001821.html</a>).

 There were two objections:<br class="">

<br class="">

 - The list (openssl-blacklist) is subject to change or removal.<br class="">

 - The list only covers 2048 and 4096 bit keys.<br class="">

<br class="">

The current draft proposes specifying a tool for ROCA (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252Fcrocs-2Dmuni-252Froca-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987901266-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3Dl9B9jKMt0Y48WIlbd3iWTQVfQBigicKKKpjNF1nfupA-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=nxbcAhdlltFClR9Qmg9UsN16XZ7UqOGsSys0xDqBWG0&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://github.com/crocs-muni/roca</a>)

 and an algorithm for Debian keys.<br class="">

<br class="">

The ROCA tool is subject to change or removal, just like the openssl-blacklist package. I propose we instead specify ROCA detection in terms of the paper (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fcrocs.fi.muni.cz-252Fpublic-252Fpapers-252Frsa-5Fccs17-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987911226-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DRub6MkznN76aolt0dhOYkfTjJkyVnj0fwZrsJUryXMQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=8rXYwNUZwLRB24_U5FuoEbrhwd70LP_8NskJIjTZi18&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://crocs.fi.muni.cz/public/papers/rsa_ccs17</a>)

 and ask for permission from the authors to archive an unchanging copy as an addendum to the BRs.<br class="">

<br class="">

For Debian keys, what looks like an algorithm specification is actually a tool + algorithm specification. The tool is "OpenSSL 0.9.8c-1 up to versions before 0.9.8g-9 on Debian-based operating systems" (per CVE-2008-01666 -<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fcve.mitre.org-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fcvename.cgi-253Fname-253D2008-2D0166-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987911226-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DXpkzHob7aGcgQ5LgbuS5c2jqlj2c9gyXDGCcS3ie4jo-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=MWo4PqNeswUa6-fuEMNNaSd02TDitpgXqPy1wmZvnHM&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2008-0166</a>).

 To ensure an unchanging copy of that, we should archive 3 copies of Debian, for the 3 word size + endianness combinations.<br class="">

<br class="">

The algorithm also needs an additional line: "v) using the command 'openssl req -nodes -subj / -newkey rsa:<Public Key length>'" (adapted from<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fsources.debian.org-252Fdata-252Fmain-252Fo-252Fopenssl-2Dblacklist-252F0.5-2D3-252Fexamples-252Fgen-5Fcerts.sh-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987921179-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DZ40B2ThpBDTlyQLNf5uEi3puNaHScA-252FoA98dbSazm0M-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=Kwjiq53ZzTyO1dvfcFMt0GUI7cmUsaTJSnQA6JZoRIw&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://sources.debian.org/data/main/o/openssl-blacklist/0.5-3/examples/gen_certs.sh</a>).

 Other tools that linked OpenSSL, like openvpn and openssh, generated different sets of keys. We can include or exclude openvpn and openssh keys, but should thoroughly specify.<br class="">

<br class="">

Lastly, I think we should archive openssl-blacklist, and include in the BRs: "A CA may reject the full set of Debian weak keys by rejecting this superset of the Debian weak keys:<br class="">

<br class="">

 - All RSA public keys with modulus lengths other than 2048 or 4096, and<br class="">

 - All RSA public keys with exponents other than 65537, and<br class="">

 - All RSA public keys that are detected as vulnerable by the openssl-vulnkey program in the openssl-blacklist package version 0.5-3 (see addendum), or an equivalent program."<br class="">

<br class="">

My reasoning: Given the difficulty of correctly setting up old Debian versions and generating weak keys for sizes that are not part of openssl-blacklist, I expect most CAs will choose this path. Given that, we should just say what we mean: the pregenerated

 list is fine if you restrict key sizes, but you don't *have* to restrict key sizes, so long as you have an alternate method to ensure you're not issuing for Debian weak keys at other sizes.<br class="">

<br class="">

*I'm considering specifying an algorithm to be functionally equivalent to specifying an "outcome," though I recognize this may be too hand-wavy.</div>

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<pre class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Servercert-wg mailing list</pre>

<pre class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a></pre>

<pre class="" style="margin:0in; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Flists.cabforum.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fservercert-2Dwg-26data-3D04-257C01-257Crob-2540sectigo.com-257Ca8c9d97cd4114ebf508708d9930d343d-257C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7-257C0-257C0-257C637702508987921179-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DViXtSngAJ8HKviLem1BbQNX0DxAHLQuEQIlYXiHUgXw-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=VwTwAReTPFcQCSxI7fG8uPrpAafJQ6w6KjJvA0zEnFk&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a></pre>

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<a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">

<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_servercert-2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=z9o7_4hZP712S4Pmo87r-EDp1vhMXmppIaYtKPbuJWw&e=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.cabforum.org_mailman_listinfo_servercert-2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=-bX5hBm1IdRDykQ-dBR8tsFRCM4v1VXUyG7RZa2WqPY&m=fMDCutmeJbXlHHWIZLMy2UAZB79bm_AVGAAADmUsNAE&s=z9o7_4hZP712S4Pmo87r-EDp1vhMXmppIaYtKPbuJWw&e=</a></div>

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