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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For “Log entries MUST include the following elements:” I propose we use the term “events” since the name of the section is “Types of Events Recorded” this means
that the part at the bottom of this section could look like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Log entries MUST include the following elements:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Date and time of event<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Identity of the person performing the action associated with the event; and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Description of the event.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">OR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Logged events MUST include the following elements:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Date and time of event<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Identity of the person performing the action associated with the event; and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Description of the event.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Servercert-wg <servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan Sleevi via Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 27, 2020 11:51<br>
<b>To:</b> Neil Dunbar <ndunbar@trustcorsystems.com>; CA/B Forum Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List <servercert-wg@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] [Servercert-wg] Ballot SC28: Logging and Log Retention<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><strong><span style="background:#FFFF99">CAUTION</span></strong><span style="background:#FFFF99">: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:39 AM Neil Dunbar via Servercert-wg <<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Section 5.4.1<br>
<br>
The CA and each Delegated Third Party SHALL record details of the<br>
actions taken to process a certificate request and to issue a<br>
Certificate, including all information generated and documentation<br>
received in connection with the certificate request; the time and date;<br>
and the personnel involved. The CA SHALL make these records available to<br>
its Qualified Auditor as proof of the CA’s compliance with these<br>
Requirements.<br>
<br>
The CA SHALL record at least the following events:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Just a note: In the GitHub redline, this is repeated twice :) I realize it's not official, but it stood out ;)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Insert, as Section 5.4.3. Retention Period for Audit Logs of the<br>
“Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and Management of<br>
Publicly-Trusted Certificates”, the following:<br>
<br>
The CA SHALL retain, for at least two years:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My first glance when reading this is that it reads a little weird, and I can easily see it leading to misinterpretation. "For at least two years" reads as a period since the event happened, but that's not actually the case - it's for at
least two years <i>following</i> a different event (namely, destruction/revocation/expiration).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don't have a great concrete solution here, but if it helps settle any debates, it does seem confusing :P I'm loath to introduce a term like "log retention period", but that might help? e.g. "The log retention period for CA certificate
and key lifecycle management event records shall be from the moment of the event until at least two years after the ..."? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
1. CA certificate and key lifecycle management event records (as <o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">set forth in Section 5.4.1.1) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1) This is a little confusing on terminology. 5.4.1 stipulates the CA SHALL record, but then later in the same section, states "Log entries". Are "log entries" "log records"? Should we align the two terms.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Suggestion: Pick a term (i don't care which) and let's use it consistently, either as "log entries" or "log records", or highlight why they're distinct/different<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) There is no Section titled 5.4.1.1; there's a Section 5.4.1 with a bulleted list that has a 1. We don't really have an established notation here, but I don't think we've treated all numbered lists as inherently subsections (notoriously,
4.9.1.1's requirements are hard to cite).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Suggestion: Tease 5.4.1 into sub-sections, and move the requirements that follow the list into the top-level 5.4.1 as applying to all of those subsections?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">after either: the destruction of the CA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">CA _Private_ Key<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">key, or the revocation or expiration of the CA certificate, whichever<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">s/certificate/Certificate/ (we consistently case-match Certificate in the BRs)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">occurs later.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There's an ambiguity here, which is when there are multiple certificates associated with a given key (e.g. a Root Certificate and a Subordinate CA that is a Cross-Certificate). The wording of this requirement implies a singular requirement
("the CA key"), which would seem to permit a CA arguing that they no longer have to retain the events after /one/ certificate expires, rather than after /all/ certificates expire. This isn't the only section to face that challenge (e.g. <a href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/issues/187">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/issues/187</a> ),
but it seems appropriate to try and tackle this.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
2. Subscriber Certificate lifecycle management event records (as<br>
set forth in Section 5.4.1.2) after the revocation or expiration of the<br>
Subscriber Certificate <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This seems fine<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"> 3. any security event records (as set forth in Section 5.4.1.3)<br>
after the event occured.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am most uneasy about this. I think it's understandable with respect to firewall/router logs the challenges faced by CAs, but I'm deeply concerned about things like CA entry/exit. The problem is the system event logs are relevant to the
overall trust in the CA, and you really want to make sure you have the lifecycle history... for the CA certificate. I may not be fully appreciating the scope of the challenge, and I know it'll be laughable coming from a Googler, but "terabytes of data" does
not sound 'that' hard, especially given the vital role of CAs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It seems like the focus on this ballot is "If there's something to catch, we would have caught it sooner", but I'm moreso interested in the "If something goes wrong, we can really understand how, where, and why it went wrong". I can appreciate
the argument that no one would be patient enough to wait two years before doing shenanigans, but some of these things (like Certificate Profiles) are totally things that have gone years before shenanigans/issues caught.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Delete from “Network and Certificate Systems Security Requirements”,<br>
Version 1.3, Section 3.b<br>
<br>
b. Identify those Certificate Systems under the control of CA or<br>
Delegated Third Party Trusted Roles capable of monitoring and logging<br>
system activity and enable those systems to continuously monitor and log<br>
system activity;<br>
<br>
Insert new “Network and Certificate Systems Security Requirements”,<br>
Version 1.3, Section 3.b with the following text:<br>
<br>
b. Identify those Certificate Systems under the control of CA or<br>
Delegated Third Party Trusted Roles capable of monitoring and logging<br>
system activity, and enable those systems to log and continuously<br>
monitor the events specified in Section 5.4.1.3 of the Baseline<br>
Requirements for the Issuance and Management of Publicly-Trusted<br>
Certificates;<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So one obvious implication to this is that CAs no longer have to log what software is installed on their system. As long as it's not "security" software, the CA would argue that under 5.4.1 (3)(2), installing software on the CA is not itself
the PKI system (e.g. EJBCA) or the security system (e.g. the firewall/audit logging), ergo doesn't need to be logged.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I definitely appreciate the effort to bring more of the NCSSRs in harmony with the BRs, potentially permitting their eventual integration of the useful bits, but some of the places of broad applicability are useful (for Root Programs),
even if burdensome (for CAs). <o:p></o:p></p>
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