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According to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.cabforum.org/ballots">https://wiki.cabforum.org/ballots</a>, it should be
FORUM-11<br>
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Dimitris.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-05-21 1:19 π.μ., Ryan Sleevi
via Public wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Oh, and the ballot number will need to be updated -
I'm not sure how both collided on 'FORUM-12' (Dimitris' Bylaws
ballot and this)</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:18
PM Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sleevi@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at
2:20 PM Tim Hollebeek <<a
href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’m willing to drop the scope
statement based on Thursday’s discussion and the
addition of the paragraph I suggested to the
introduction, which describes much of the same
thing in a form that seems more acceptable to
most. Clint and Wayne, are you ok with that?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the subject of redlines,
//github_redline_guide is not normative, so I
disagree that it is not a valid Ballot. But
that’s not really important, because I’m more than
happy to improve the ballot by fixing the link.</p>
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<div>While I realize we end up frequently discussing this,
I think you may have missed that this was a different
scenario than you may have realized.</div>
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<div>If your ballot had included the full text, then I
agree, the redline link was not normative. However, your
ballot just pointed to a link, and so that made the link
itself normative. The contents of the link were not
actually a charter, they were just a few edits. That's
why it wasn't really a "Ballot".</div>
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<div>This is easily fixed in the next run. You can paste
the full text, as I think you're one of the folks who
still prefers to do so, despite the risks, or you could
provide the full link to all the edits, which will at
least include a "full charter". Just a single commit on
its own, or "as of this revision", can end up being
ambiguous :) In the future, the infrastructure WG
efforts will certainly make this easier, and it's not
difficult to imagine an easy "create a ballot for me"
that provides the PDF, docx, and patch file and stable
link, so appreciate your patience :)</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Assuming Clint and Wayne sign
off, please merge the change, and I’ll update the
ballot.</p>
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<div>One more set of issues, now that scope has been
finalized, that came up on another review cycle: <a
href="https://github.com/sleevi/cabforum-docs/pull/22/files"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/sleevi/cabforum-docs/pull/22/files</a></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan Sleevi
<<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sleevi@google.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 13, 2020 5:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a
href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>;
CABforum1 <<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] Ballot
FORUM-12: Creation of S/MIME Certificates
Working Group</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 13, 2020 at
5:18 PM Tim Hollebeek via Public <<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Upon approval of
the CAB Forum by ballot in accordance
with section 5.3 of the Bylaws, the
S/MIME Certificates Working Group
(“SMWG”) is created to perform the
activities as specified in the
Charter, with the Charter as described
here (<a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/pull/167/commits/2aa376c06b45146249d0cc6b8cc5d42d08ccb177"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/pull/167/commits/2aa376c06b45146249d0cc6b8cc5d42d08ccb177</a>).</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just to be clear: This
link doesn't match the link for a valid
proposal, so I don't think this is a valid
Ballot yet. <a
href="https://wiki.cabforum.org/github_redline_guide"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.cabforum.org/github_redline_guide</a>
is helpful, but any suggestions for
improvements are welcome.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The immutable link is <a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/compare/6e0b8e61590164eb2d686ddcf266b189f46fc636...2aa376c06b45146249d0cc6b8cc5d42d08ccb177"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/compare/6e0b8e61590164eb2d686ddcf266b189f46fc636...2aa376c06b45146249d0cc6b8cc5d42d08ccb177</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The pull request is
still <a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/pull/167"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/pull/167</a> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Again, our concern is
that the statement that "non-publicly
trusted S/MIME certificates are out of
scope" accomplishes nothing valuable, and
causes real harm. That is, either it fails
to keep anything out of scope due to its
definition, OR limits the discussion to
being impossible to introduce any new
requirements due to, by definition,
anything not in the existing documents is
out of scope. Neither of these scenarios
are good, and the risk of harm outweighs
any benefits. We remain committed to
trying to work with you and understand
your goals, to find language that better
captures those goals without the
problematic ambiguity and harm of what's
being proposed.</p>
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