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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Published!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">-- <br>
Jos Purvis (</span><a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#954F72">jopurvis@cisco.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">)<br>
.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>
PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | +1 919.991.9114 (desk)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Public <public-bounces@cabforum.org> on behalf of CA/B Forum Public List <public@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)" <dzacharo@harica.gr>, CA/B Forum Public List <public@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 5:25 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>CA/B Forum Public List <public@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[cabfpub] Final Minutes for CA/Browser Forum Teleconference - November 14, 2019<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
These are the final Minutes of the Teleconference described in the subject of this message.<o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Attendees (in alphabetical order)<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal">Adam Clark (Visa), Ben Wilson (Digicert), Chris Kemmerer (SSL.com), Daniela Hood (GoDaddy), Dean Coclin (Digicert), Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA), Dustin Hollenback (Microsoft), Eva Vansteenberge (GlobalSign), Huo Haitao (Halton) (360
Browser), Inaba Atsushi (GlobalSign), Janet Hines (SecureTrust), Joanna Fox (GoDaddy), Jos Purvis (Cisco Systems), Kirk Hall (Entrust Datacard), Li-Chun Chen (Chunghwa Telecom), Mads Henriksveen (Buypass AS), Michelle Coon (OATI), Mike Reilly (Microsoft),
Neil Dunbar (TrustCor Systems), Niko Carpenter (SecureTrust), Peter Miskovic (Disig), Rich Smith (Sectigo), Robin Alden (Sectigo), Ryan Sleevi (Google), Scott Rea (Dark Matter), Shelley Brewer (Digicert), Tim Hollebeek (Digicert), Timo Schmitt (SwissSign),
Tobias Josefowitz (Opera Software AS), Trevoli Ponds-White (Amazon), Vincent Lynch (Digicert), Wayne Thayer (Mozilla), Wendy Brown (US Federal PKI Management Authority).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Minutes <o:p></o:p></h2>
<h3>1. Roll Call<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Chair took attendance. <o:p></o:p></p>
<h3>2. Read Antitrust Statement<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The Antitrust Statement was read.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<h3>3. Review Agenda<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">No changes to the agenda.<o:p></o:p></p>
<h3>4. Discuss Action Items from the recent F2F 48 meeting <o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal">Infrastructure Subcommittee<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
Jos and Ryan will continue to work on a ballot to make the BRs "pandoc friendly"<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
As discussed in the SCWG meeting, this is work in progress, Jos is waiting for SC23 and SC24 to be merged in the master branch of GitHub, rebase and update the proposed changes.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
Trev to investigate about allowing incoming/outgoing SMTP traffic to new VMs<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
Trev confirmed the action item.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
Someone (?) to plan for Etherpad installation for next F2F<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
Jos volunteered to work on this task<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">S/MIME WG<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2">
Someone (?) to draft and send the charter based on the F2F discussion. Unfortunately the minutes are missing and the recording is not available yet.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo2">
Tim mentioned that a couple of people are working on a charter and he hopes to be able to send a draft out today.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Photo Policy<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3">
Dimitris to finalize the draft proposal and describe the red/dark blue lanyard colors to indicate additional-privacy/no-additional-privacy request.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3">
Ryan to propose language improvements for the "attribution" to IETF.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Issues with Bylaws<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo4">
Dimitris to propose text for Bylaws so that each Member participating in a Working Group to designate voting representatives. If a Member wants to designate different representatives for the Forum level compared to the Working Group level, they can do so. Only
votes from official representatives will count. Each voting representative may extend or restrict the set of voting members. Voting representatives can also be introduced or removed by a Member's legal (or properly delegated) representative.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level2 lfo4">
Dimitris to prepare some draft language in the following weeks.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level2 lfo4">
Tim mentioned that Digicert is not necessarily opposed to this language but during the F2F discussion there were some members who expressed the opinion that this is more of a problem with an organization that may be having trouble controlling who votes for
their organization. This seems to be more of a Member-type of problem rather than a CA/B Forum problem. Ryan asked if Digicert could share some information about the change of opinion on this subject and Tim replied that there are concerns that this process
of introducing this language and clarifying will take time. If this can get quickly resolved, that's worth doing. But there are concerns that it might take more than it's worth. This is trying to solve a problem that the Forum has not experienced before.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level2 lfo4">
Dimitris responded that different opinions were heard at the F2F and hopefully have been captured in the minutes, we may not reach a full agreement on this topic but he will make an effort to write a proposal and send it out to see if it works for everyone.
He also added that this problem will become more important as the Forum grows.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Who signs the IPR Agreement<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Dimitris (and Ryan?) to describe the scenario where the CA/B Forum receives an application from a CA, which is the "Owner", but that CA uses a different Legal Entity as the CA "Operator". The "Operator" is the one likely to participate in CA/B Forum activities
and likely to "Contribute". The safe approach is to require both Legal Entities to sign the IPR Agreement.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo5">
Draft language in the Bylaws to give guidance for this particular scenario because we had it more than once. It shouldn't be too hard to describe this. Ryan agreed it should be trivial to describe what happens when a Member delegates participation or the operations
of their CA and also voting. We could imagine a scenario where the Policy Management Authority controls the voting rights and delegates the other operations and participation. We could allow this flexibility if this is combined with the previous discussion
about voting representatives.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo5">
Dimitris and Ryan can continue this offline and work on this language.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo5">
There was some additional discussion about current Forum examples of Members with delegated partners (Network Solutions - Sectigo, FPKI - delegated contractors, etc).<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Concept of member<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">
Ryan to work with counsel to identify inconsistencies. <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">
Ben recommended to go through the Bylaws/IPR Policy and flag instances that contain inconsistencies. Actions?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo6">
Ryan mentioned that this is a similar problem as the problem with the legal representatives.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo6">
Ben was not sure if it was the same thing but he noticed that we don't have a "member agreement" but just an "IPR agreement" which may not bind a Member to the Bylaws. Ryan replied that this should probably not lead in creating a new membership agreement document.
Tim mentioned that this could be an "interesting" area because the IPR Policy is mentioned in the Bylaws and if there is no legally-binding process for the Members to follow the Bylaws it would lead into "interesting" situations. Ryan replied that by binding
a Member to the IPR Policy, automatically binds them with the Bylaws. It might be a lot to unpack on this call and suggested we either discuss at the next call or on the list. Dimitris recommended that we hold off on opening this topic and work with other
action items with more priority. This won't go away from the list of issues.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Time requirements for CAs as Associate Members<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo7">
Dimitris to describe a process to evaluate CAs that are Associate Members once a year. There is no need to change the Bylaws but we should try to have a clear process to implement the policy requirement to review CAs that are in the Associate Member category.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
There were some good suggestions from Jos.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<h3 style="mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in">
5. Any Other Business<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Dean reminded Members and Associate Members to vote on Doug's Doodle poll for the Fall 2020 F2F meeting. Dimitris also reminded people to register for the Bratislava meeting.<br>
<br>
Finally, Jos mentioned that the Infrastructure Subcommittee meeting invitate was just sent out to 6-7 participants that were active in previous meetings. If anyone is interested in attending the subcommittee's activities, he will post the meeting information
on the wiki.<o:p></o:p></p>
<h3 style="mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in">
6. Next call<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal">December 12, 2019 at 11:00 am Eastern Time. <o:p></o:p></p>
<h3>Adjourned<o:p></o:p></h3>
<h3>F2F Meeting Schedule: <o:p></o:p></h3>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo8">
2020: Feb<span style="color:red"> </span><span style="color:black">18-20 </span>Bratislava (Disig), June – Minneapolis (OATI), October – Tokyo (GlobalSign)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo8">
2021: Feb-March Dubai (DarkMatter), May 25-27 Poland (Asseco-Certum), October - San Jose, CA or RTP, NC (Cisco)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo8">
2022: Mar-April New Delhi / Bengaluru (e-Mudhra), June - <span style="color:red">
[Open]</span>, October <span style="color:red">[Open]</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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