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I probably got confused by processing all the previous discussions,
during the F2F, teleconferences and the recent discussion on the
CA/B Forum plenary public list.<br>
<br>
Leaving the EV Guidelines change aside, which you are absolutely
correct and I didn't consider it properly, the rationale of making
this a Forum-ballot is because the procedures for updating the
Guidelines affect all Working Groups. The existing Server
Certificate WG Charter doesn't say anything about how the ballots
take place because this is described in the Bylaws. Passing a Forum
Ballot with an accepted practice would affect all Working Groups and
therefore we would not need to pass the same ballot for each Working
Group. Please note the Motion language which starts with "The Chair
or Vice-Chair of a CWG..."<br>
<br>
I did not propose updating the Bylaws because the majority of
Members wanted to have more substantial changes collected for Bylaws
updates because of the extra revisions (though legal and other
departments). You also supported that we should not make small
changes to Bylaws very frequently. I tried to capture that in this
ballot which is why it is not a Bylaws update but a "Forum approved"
practice, which already happens today.<br>
<br>
There is no contravention of the Bylaws as far as this procedure is
concerned. The Bylaws are silent about these changes. If you
consider that this proposed procedure violates the Bylaws, then you
are practically saying that all existing Guidelines published on our
web site are invalid.<br>
<br>
If members feel that this needs to be an SCWG ballot, I'd gladly
move it to the SCWG public list. If members feel this should be a
Forum ballot, for the reasons mentioned above, I will revise the
ballot and remove the changes to the EV Guidelines, as these would
have to be performed at the SCWG. I therefore welcome some feedback
from other members as well.<br>
<br>
I also feel a bit offended by your expression that I am "committed
to avoiding changes to the Bylaws". I would very much like to make
this a Bylaws update but I respect the majority's opinion not to
make small changes to Bylaws.<br>
<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-09-11 4:25 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi
via Public wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:CACvaWvbYHGsAMh6ze9ZKj6Osb187-ZWh=a0J1B1ZFn7ZqTww5g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Dimitris,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm a bit surprised you went this way, as I do think it
creates more problems.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On a ballot legitimacy level, I do not believe you can
propose a Forum level ballot to change a Final Maintenance
Guideline of a CWG, which you've done by proposing to use the
Forum to change the EV Guidelines. That seems directly in
contravention of our Bylaws.</div>
<div><br>
With respect to proposing Ballots that change our procedure in
contravention of the Bylaws, this is not acceptable. If you
want to change our Bylaws, then change our Bylaws - but the
suggestion of creating procedures that conflict with and
contravene our Bylaws, without actually capturing them,
undermines the entire legitimacy of the Forum and our IP
protections, which are gated upon the execution of the Bylaws.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As we've previously discussed, repeatedly, a path forward
involves having the Bylaws recognize that CWGs may designate
portions of Final Guidelines and Final Maintenance Guidelines
as informative and non-binding, and permit modifications to
those sections by the Chair or Vice-Chair. This would then
allow the SCWG to designate the appropriate sections as
informative.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you're committed to avoiding changes to the Bylaws,
there are also obvious other solutions as well, which fully
comport with our Bylaws and IP policy, and which would be done
at the SCWG level.</div>
</div>
<br>
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