<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I think Wayne's last phrase maintains a certain balance that covers
most of the concerns raised from all sides. I propose we move
forward with that and see how it will work out. In case we find
ourselves in a situation where we can't discuss or propose new ideas
due to possible IPR alarms raised by members, we can revisit this
language.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2019 3:12 π.μ., Kirk Hall via
Public wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a990913852cd4205a74e614ed1935375@PMSPEX03.corporate.datacard.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’m
not trying to be difficult, but I’m not sure there will
always be agreement on how to interpret the phrase “</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">the
Forum shall not engage in activities that carry a
significant risk of introducing encumbered intellectual
property”. Clearly working on the development or amendment
of Guidelines should be blocked. Can you give examples of
“activities that carry a significant risk of introducing
encumbered intellectual property” that don’t involve
Guidelines? I can’t think if any – the IRPA only addresses
Guidelines.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
would hate to adopt a phrase like that if it resulted in
fights on what non-Guidelines topics could be discussed at
the Forum level.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Wayne Thayer [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com">mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 6, 2019 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com"><Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Re: cabfpub] Bylaws: Add Forum
Subcommittees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color:red">WARNING:</span></strong>
This email originated outside of Entrust Datacard.<br>
<strong><span style="color:red">DO NOT CLICK</span></strong>
links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the
content is safe.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center">
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kirk - I agree with your arguments that
my proposed language is too broad but I also think that
yours is a bit too narrow. How about:<br>
<br>
“Due to the lack of IPR protection, Subcommittees of the
Forum shall not engage in activities that carry a
significant risk of introducing encumbered intellectual
property, such as the development or amendment of
Guidelines.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Wayne<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 11:25 AM Kirk
Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Wayne
– as I said on the call, I think the restriction
should be narrower. Something like “In order to
avoid coming within the scope of the IPR Agreement ,
the Forum and its Subcommittees shall not engage in
the development or amendment of Guidelines.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The
draft language you have below is almost impossible
to apply – “any activity that could result in a
claim infringement of a Member's Intellectual
Property”. If we discuss a draft Charter at the
Forum level for creation of a new Anti-Gravity
Certificate Working Group and we want to fine-tune
the WG’s scope, we will certainly be discussing
technical issues. How can we possibly know whether
or not our discussion “could result in a claim
infringement of a Member's Intellectual Property”?
I have no idea what Intellectual Property the other
Members have.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As
another example, the Infrastructure WG may forward a
proposal to the Forum for how we do our wiki,
emails, etc., and ask for comments. I’m sure that
several Members have IP relating to wikis, servers,
email systems, etc. If we discuss the WG proposal
at the Forum level, would that be an “activity that
could result in a claim infringement of a Member's
Intellectual Property”? No, because the Forum will
not be drafting Guidelines, and is not a WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We
need to keep focused on the language of the IPRA and
what it covers – which is only development of
Guidelines at the WG level. So long as the Forum
(and its subcommittees) stays away from that, we
should be good.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Public [mailto:<a
href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wayne Thayer via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 24, 2019 9:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List
<<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL][cabfpub] Bylaws: Add
Forum Subcommittees</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
today's call, we discussed the addition of the
following section to the Bylaws:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">5.6
Subcommittees<br>
The Forum may establish subcommittees of the
Forum by ballot to address any of the Forum’s
business as specified in the ballot.
Subcommittees are open to all Forum Members. A
Forum Subcommittee may work on and recommend
Forum ballots, complete delegated Forum
functions, or issue reports to the Forum that
are within the subcommittee’s jurisdiction.
Subcommittees must post all agendas and minutes
on a public mail list.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ryan
proposed the addition of explicit language
regarding IPR. Something like:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Subcommittees
of the Forum shall not engage in any activity that
could result in a claim infringement of a Member's
Intellectual Property. Such activities include the
discussion or creation of Guidelines or similar
standards-setting documents.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Comments?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Wayne<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org">Public@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>