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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/2/2019 12:38 π.μ., Dean Coclin via
Public wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Well I agree with your first comment <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😉</span>
“I suspect we'll disagree on this”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a good topic for the F2F meeting as
it will likely be more productive to have this discussion
there and try to come to some conclusion. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dimitris-is this already on the agenda? If
not, can we add?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<br>
It certainly is. It might need more time though, we can update. We
will discuss the F2F agenda on our scheduled teleconference call on
February 21st. Of course, if members want to propose additional
topics, they can check the draft agenda on the wiki and send me any
updates they would like to see.<br>
<br>
For what it's worth, I agree with Dean that we should allow Identity
in the scope and prioritize our focus. It was one of my earlier
comments when the document was drafted and it's included as a
comment in the online draft. The risk Ryan describes seems
acceptable to me and something we can handle by adding the
appropriate language in the Charter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan Sleevi
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"><sleevi@google.com></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 5, 2019 4:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dean Coclin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"><dean.coclin@digicert.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"><public@cabforum.org></a>; Wayne Thayer
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com"><wthayer@mozilla.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [EXTERNAL]Re: Draft SMIME
Working Group Charter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:29 PM Dean
Coclin <<a href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dean.coclin@digicert.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">While
that’s true, there’s also the risk to that approach
in that the community feels that topic X is not
included in the charter and therefore will not be
addressed or feel that it’s not important a topic to
be addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">By
including it in the initial charter and by
specifying the order of events, that insures it will
be covered at some point. The charter can say simply
(with better wording):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">“Topics
A, B, C and X, Y, Z will be covered in the charter.
Topics A, B, C will be the first ones addressed in
the initial release of the guidelines. Topics X, Y,
Z will be addressed in a subsequent release. The
initial guidelines will have to be voted on and
approved prior to moving to topics X, Y, Z.” This
avoids the risk you describe about starting to work
on the secondary topics before the first ones are
approved. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This
insures the relevant topics expressed by the
community are in scope but that an ordering is
preferred and necessary. It also avoids a problem
later on by anyone who doesn’t want to cover topics
X, Y, Z and forces the working group to disband
before they are addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I suspect we'll disagree on this, but
what you describe as a bug is actually a feature.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It defers the debate about topics X,
Y, and Z, and how to address them, and when to address
them, to a time later suited, in order to ensure that
focus is executed on A, B, C.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm supportive of language that helps
assuage folks concerns by clarifying that it's excluded
from scope without a statement about fitness for
purpose, if that is the only reason to include X, Y, Z
in the charter, but I believe there is substantial harm
in including it as you've presented, for the reasons I
explained previously.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And while I realize that many members
would prefer not to think about IP issues, including X,
Y, and Z in scope mean that, at any time, participation
may touch on IP on those topics, even if they're not
'yet' being tackled. Explicitly excluding from scope,
and rechartering, helps provide meaningful check points
for progress.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Just as we talk about how "good"
ballots are one that are focused and narrow to a problem
at hand - which the Validation WG has done a fairly
great job at demonstrating - the same applies to
charters. Keeping focus is extremely valuable, and we
shouldn't compromise that.<o:p></o:p></p>
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