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<font face="Cambria">This is your first endorser.</font><br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
M.D.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/2018 9:06 PM, Dimitris
Zacharopoulos via Public wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a487143a-5a84-6d4c-8a3d-cdc1c004e76e@it.auth.gr">
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Hi Inigo,<br>
<br>
Tim has withdrawn the changes to ETSI because his main goal is to
just fix the Bylaws with the language of Ballot 206. The risk of
CAs using the old TS standards is already very high and we should
not wait any longer to fix this. I'd be happy to propose a new
ballot to fix the ETSI language for the Bylaws and the SCWG
charter.<br>
<br>
I will propose replacing:<br>
<br>
"or ETSI TS 102042, ETSI 101456, or ETSI EN 319 411-1"<br>
<br>
with "or ETSI EN 319 411-1". <br>
<br>
That's the only change I am currently willing to propose/endorse.
Looking for two endorsers.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/9/2018 10:06 πμ, InigoBarreira
via Servercert-wg wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:C749A5FB9E789543BDEE6DAE196B069501253EA0@EX02.corp.qihoo.net">
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<div>Tim,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I´d remove all mentions to ETSI TS documents (102 042 and
101 456) in all CABF documents. These TSs have not been
updated for years, they don´t reflect the current
requirements of the CABF.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
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<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF281658" style="direction: ltr;"><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>De:</b>
Servercert-wg [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
en nombre de Tim Hollebeek via Servercert-wg [<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado:</b> jueves, 13 de septiembre de 2018 20:46<br>
<b>Para:</b> Tim Hollebeek; CA/Browser Forum Public
Discussion List; Ryan Sleevi; <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Ballot FORUM-4 v2<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">As discussed on the Validation WG
call, this unfortunately is probably not going to be
possible for this particular ballot. Ben did a lot of
work to get the current redlined document to
accurately reflect what the Bylaws were intended to be
at this point.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the attached version 3, I’ve
corrected a typo that was left behind after I reverted
the ETSI changes. I would urge a few people to take a
close look at it and make sure there are no additional
errors …</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ll aim to update the ballot
(again, sigh…) once I’ve heard from a few people that
it looks good based on analysis that is independent of
mine and Ben’s.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;
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<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Public <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Hollebeek via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:33
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ryan Sleevi <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sleevi@google.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [Servercert-wg]
Ballot FORUM-4 v2</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m highly sympathetic to that,
especially with a document as important as the
Bylaws. I’ve had the same concern as well as I look
through Ben’s redline. After looking at it closer
on the plane last night, I have some concerns about
what appear to be some changes to cross-references
that appear correct, but I’m not sure if they’re
needed.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I will also note that I have
previously pointed out that according to the Bylaws,
redlines are REQUIRED, but cannot be trusted in any
way, shape, or form, as our Bylaws clearly state
they are ignored for the purposed of updating the
requirements. Yet everyone seems to want to review
the redlines, not the ballot text. As I’ve pointed
out several times, creating an additional
representation of the changes that is required but
cannot be trusted doesn’t help anyone.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is really, really silly, and
I wish people were more vocal and active in finding
a solution to it that works for everyone. And no, I
don’t want to discuss what tools or processes should
be used to produce redlines.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Each ballot should have one and
only one official representation of the proposed
changes, and no alternative unofficial changes
should be required. I’ve circulated several
proposals, but I really don’t care about the
details, as long as the problem is solved.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In this case, I think I’m going
to look and see if the Ballot Text from 216 applies
cleanly to the latest Bylaws, and produce a redline
based on that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan Sleevi
<<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sleevi@google.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13, 2018 2:15
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a
href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Ballot
FORUM-4 v2</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tim,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe there had been a
previous suggestion to provide this as a
clearer redline, rather than an "Adopt
Document X". Can you clarify that?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">By presenting it as you
have, it's going to create more work to even
make sure that the formatting of the document
- claiming to be a redline - actually matches
to the last canonical version, and that the
changes you've highlighted in red, are, well
the changes to be made.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you can understand
why that's more difficult, because it requires
wholesale comparison rather than taking the
previous version and showing how it would be
corrected.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at
9:20 PM Tim Hollebeek via Servercert-wg <<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Ballot FORUM-4
v2: Fix mistakes made during passage of
Governance Reform Ballot 206</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Purpose of
Ballot</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The Governance
Reform ballot (Ballot 206 under the old
ballot numbering scheme) was extremely
complicated and took roughly two years to
draft. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The changes to
the Bylaws from Ballot 216 were intended
to be included in the Governance Reform
ballot, but were accidentally not
included.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The attached
version of the Bylaws restores the
important discussion period changes that
were approved by the members but then
accidentally overwritten.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The following
motion has been proposed by Tim Hollebeek
of DigiCert and endorsed by Wayne Thayer
of Mozilla and Moudrick Dadashov of SSC.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">--- MOTION
BEGINS ---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">This ballot
replaces the “Bylaws of the CA/Browser
Forum” version 1.9 with version 2.0 of
those Bylaws, attached to this ballot.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">--- MOTION
ENDS ---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The procedure
for approval of this ballot is as follows:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Discussion (7
days)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Start Time:
2018-09-12, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">End Time:
2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Vote for
approval (7 days)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Start Time:
2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">End Time:
2018-09-26, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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