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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/9/2018 10:39 πμ, InigoBarreira
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C749A5FB9E789543BDEE6DAE196B069501254049@EX02.corp.qihoo.net">
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<div>Dimitris, I´m Ok and you have now 2 endorsers, but why
still the "or"? There´s no options.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's "Webtrust or...."<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C749A5FB9E789543BDEE6DAE196B069501254049@EX02.corp.qihoo.net">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF16726" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>De:</b> Mads Egil
Henriksveen [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mads.Henriksveen@buypass.no">Mads.Henriksveen@buypass.no</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado:</b> lunes, 17 de septiembre de 2018 7:00<br>
<b>Para:</b> Moudrick M. Dadashov; CA/B Forum Server
Certificate WG Public Discussion List; Dimitris
Zacharopoulos; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List;
InigoBarreira<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> RE: [Servercert-wg] [cabfpub] Ballot
FORUM-4 v2<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I will
endorse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mads</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">
Servercert-wg
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"><servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Moudrick M. Dadashov via
Servercert-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mandag 17. september 2018 01:05<br>
<b>To:</b> Dimitris Zacharopoulos
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jimmy@it.auth.gr"><jimmy@it.auth.gr></a>; CA/Browser Forum Public
Discussion List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"><public@cabforum.org></a>;
InigoBarreira <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:v-inigo@360.cn"><v-inigo@360.cn></a>; CA/B Forum
Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] [cabfpub]
Ballot FORUM-4 v2</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">This is
your first endorser.</span><br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
M.D.<span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/16/2018 9:06 PM, Dimitris
Zacharopoulos via Public wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
Inigo,<br>
<br>
Tim has withdrawn the changes to ETSI because his main
goal is to just fix the Bylaws with the language of
Ballot 206. The risk of CAs using the old TS standards
is already very high and we should not wait any longer
to fix this. I'd be happy to propose a new ballot to
fix the ETSI language for the Bylaws and the SCWG
charter.<br>
<br>
I will propose replacing:<br>
<br>
"or ETSI TS 102042, ETSI 101456, or ETSI EN 319 411-1"<br>
<br>
with "or ETSI EN 319 411-1". <br>
<br>
That's the only change I am currently willing to
propose/endorse. Looking for two endorsers.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 14/9/2018 10:06 πμ,
InigoBarreira via Servercert-wg wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;
margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Tim,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I´d
remove all mentions to ETSI TS documents (102
042 and 101 456) in all CABF documents. These
TSs have not been updated for years, they
don´t reflect the current requirements of the
CABF.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Regards</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<hr size="3" align="center" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div id="divRpF281658">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
Servercert-wg [<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
en nombre de Tim Hollebeek via Servercert-wg
[<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado:</b> jueves, 13 de septiembre de
2018 20:46<br>
<b>Para:</b> Tim Hollebeek; CA/Browser Forum
Public Discussion List; Ryan Sleevi;
<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Ballot
FORUM-4 v2</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As discussed on the
Validation WG call, this unfortunately is
probably not going to be possible for this
particular ballot. Ben did a lot of work to
get the current redlined document to
accurately reflect what the Bylaws were
intended to be at this point.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the attached version
3, I’ve corrected a typo that was left
behind after I reverted the ETSI changes. I
would urge a few people to take a close look
at it and make sure there are no additional
errors …</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ll aim to update the
ballot (again, sigh…) once I’ve heard from a
few people that it looks good based on
analysis that is independent of mine and
Ben’s.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none; border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm
0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Public
<a
href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Hollebeek via
Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13,
2018 9:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ryan Sleevi <a
href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sleevi@google.com></a>;
<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub]
[Servercert-wg] Ballot FORUM-4 v2</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m highly sympathetic
to that, especially with a document as
important as the Bylaws. I’ve had the
same concern as well as I look through
Ben’s redline. After looking at it closer
on the plane last night, I have some
concerns about what appear to be some
changes to cross-references that appear
correct, but I’m not sure if they’re
needed.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I will also note that I
have previously pointed out that according
to the Bylaws, redlines are REQUIRED, but
cannot be trusted in any way, shape, or
form, as our Bylaws clearly state they are
ignored for the purposed of updating the
requirements. Yet everyone seems to want
to review the redlines, not the ballot
text. As I’ve pointed out several times,
creating an additional representation of
the changes that is required but cannot be
trusted doesn’t help anyone.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is really, really
silly, and I wish people were more vocal
and active in finding a solution to it
that works for everyone. And no, I don’t
want to discuss what tools or processes
should be used to produce redlines.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Each ballot should have
one and only one official representation
of the proposed changes, and no
alternative unofficial changes should be
required. I’ve circulated several
proposals, but I really don’t care about
the details, as long as the problem is
solved.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In this case, I think
I’m going to look and see if the Ballot
Text from 216 applies cleanly to the
latest Bylaws, and produce a redline based
on that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none; border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;
border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan
Sleevi <<a
href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sleevi@google.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13,
2018 2:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a
href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>;
<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg]
Ballot FORUM-4 v2</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tim,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe there
had been a previous suggestion to
provide this as a clearer redline,
rather than an "Adopt Document X".
Can you clarify that?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">By presenting it
as you have, it's going to create
more work to even make sure that the
formatting of the document -
claiming to be a redline - actually
matches to the last canonical
version, and that the changes you've
highlighted in red, are, well the
changes to be made.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you can
understand why that's more
difficult, because it requires
wholesale comparison rather than
taking the previous version and
showing how it would be corrected.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 12,
2018 at 9:20 PM Tim Hollebeek via
Servercert-wg <<a
href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
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margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ballot
FORUM-4 v2: Fix mistakes made
during passage of Governance
Reform Ballot 206</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Purpose of
Ballot</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
Governance Reform ballot (Ballot
206 under the old ballot
numbering scheme) was extremely
complicated and took roughly two
years to draft. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The changes
to the Bylaws from Ballot 216
were intended to be included in
the Governance Reform ballot,
but were accidentally not
included.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The attached
version of the Bylaws restores
the important discussion period
changes that were approved by
the members but then
accidentally overwritten.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The following
motion has been proposed by Tim
Hollebeek of DigiCert and
endorsed by Wayne Thayer of
Mozilla and Moudrick Dadashov of
SSC.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--- MOTION
BEGINS ---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This ballot
replaces the “Bylaws of the
CA/Browser Forum” version 1.9
with version 2.0 of those
Bylaws, attached to this ballot.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--- MOTION
ENDS ---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The procedure
for approval of this ballot is
as follows:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion (7
days)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Start Time:
2018-09-12, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">End Time:
2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Vote for
approval (7 days)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Start Time:
2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">End Time:
2018-09-26, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>Servercert-wg mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a></pre>
<pre><a href="http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>Public mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a></pre>
<pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
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