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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/9/2018 10:39 πμ, InigoBarreira
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:C749A5FB9E789543BDEE6DAE196B069501254049@EX02.corp.qihoo.net">
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        <div>Dimitris, I´m Ok and you have now 2 endorsers, but why
          still the "or"? There´s no options.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    It's "Webtrust or...."<br>
    <br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:C749A5FB9E789543BDEE6DAE196B069501254049@EX02.corp.qihoo.net">
      <div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
        #000000;font-size: 10pt;">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regards</div>
        <div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
          font-size: 16px">
          <hr tabindex="-1">
          <div id="divRpF16726" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2"
              face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>De:</b> Mads Egil
              Henriksveen [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mads.Henriksveen@buypass.no">Mads.Henriksveen@buypass.no</a>]<br>
              <b>Enviado:</b> lunes, 17 de septiembre de 2018 7:00<br>
              <b>Para:</b> Moudrick M. Dadashov; CA/B Forum Server
              Certificate WG Public Discussion List; Dimitris
              Zacharopoulos; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List;
              InigoBarreira<br>
              <b>Asunto:</b> RE: [Servercert-wg] [cabfpub] Ballot
              FORUM-4 v2<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div class="WordSection1">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I will
                  endorse.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mads</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
              <div>
                <div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
                  padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext"
                        lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                      style="color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">
                      Servercert-wg
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"><servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Moudrick M. Dadashov via
                      Servercert-wg<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> mandag 17. september 2018 01:05<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jimmy@it.auth.gr"><jimmy@it.auth.gr></a>; CA/Browser Forum Public
                      Discussion List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"><public@cabforum.org></a>;
                      InigoBarreira <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:v-inigo@360.cn"><v-inigo@360.cn></a>; CA/B Forum
                      Server Certificate WG Public Discussion List
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"><servercert-wg@cabforum.org></a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] [cabfpub]
                      Ballot FORUM-4 v2</span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">This is
                  your first endorser.</span><br>
                <br>
                Thanks,<br>
                M.D.<span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On 9/16/2018 9:06 PM, Dimitris
                  Zacharopoulos via Public wrote:</p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
                  Inigo,<br>
                  <br>
                  Tim has withdrawn the changes to ETSI because his main
                  goal is to just fix the Bylaws with the language of
                  Ballot 206. The risk of CAs using the old TS standards
                  is already very high and we should not wait any longer
                  to fix this. I'd be happy to propose a new ballot to
                  fix the ETSI language for the Bylaws and the SCWG
                  charter.<br>
                  <br>
                  I will propose replacing:<br>
                  <br>
                  "or ETSI TS 102042, ETSI 101456, or ETSI EN 319 411-1"<br>
                  <br>
                  with "or ETSI EN 319 411-1". <br>
                  <br>
                  That's the only change I am currently willing to
                  propose/endorse. Looking for two endorsers.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Thanks,<br>
                  Dimitris.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                </p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On 14/9/2018 10:06 πμ,
                    InigoBarreira via Servercert-wg wrote:</p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;
                  margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;
                          font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Tim,</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;
                          font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;
                          font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I´d
                          remove all mentions to ETSI TS documents (102
                          042 and 101 456) in all CABF documents. These
                          TSs have not been updated for years, they
                          don´t reflect the current requirements of the
                          CABF.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;
                          font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;
                          font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Regards</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                        align="center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
                          font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
                          <hr size="3" align="center" width="100%">
                        </span></div>
                      <div id="divRpF281658">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt;
                              font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">De:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;
                            font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                            Servercert-wg [<a
                              href="mailto:servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
                            en nombre de Tim Hollebeek via Servercert-wg
                            [<a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>]<br>
                            <b>Enviado:</b> jueves, 13 de septiembre de
                            2018 20:46<br>
                            <b>Para:</b> Tim Hollebeek; CA/Browser Forum
                            Public Discussion List; Ryan Sleevi;
                            <a href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
                            <b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg] Ballot
                            FORUM-4 v2</span><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;
                            font-family:"Times New
                            Roman",serif"></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">As discussed on the
                            Validation WG call, this unfortunately is
                            probably not going to be possible for this
                            particular ballot.  Ben did a lot of work to
                            get the current redlined document to
                            accurately reflect what the Bylaws were
                            intended to be at this point.</p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">In the attached version
                            3, I’ve corrected a typo that was left
                            behind after I reverted the ETSI changes.  I
                            would urge a few people to take a close look
                            at it and make sure there are no additional
                            errors …</p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">I’ll aim to update the
                            ballot (again, sigh…) once I’ve heard from a
                            few people that it looks good based on
                            analysis that is independent of mine and
                            Ben’s.</p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <div style="border:none; border-left:solid
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                            <div>
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                                0cm">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Public
                                  <a
                                    href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                                    <public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
                                  <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Hollebeek via
                                  Public<br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13,
                                  2018 9:33 AM<br>
                                  <b>To:</b> Ryan Sleevi <a
                                    href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><sleevi@google.com></a>;
                                  <a
                                    href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
                                  <b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <a
                                    href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub]
                                  [Servercert-wg] Ballot FORUM-4 v2</p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">I’m highly sympathetic
                              to that, especially with a document as
                              important as the Bylaws.  I’ve had the
                              same concern as well as I look through
                              Ben’s redline.  After looking at it closer
                              on the plane last night, I have some
                              concerns about what appear to be some
                              changes to cross-references that appear
                              correct, but I’m not sure if they’re
                              needed.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">I will also note that I
                              have previously pointed out that according
                              to the Bylaws, redlines are REQUIRED, but
                              cannot be trusted in any way, shape, or
                              form, as our Bylaws clearly state they are
                              ignored for the purposed of updating the
                              requirements.  Yet everyone seems to want
                              to review the redlines, not the ballot
                              text.  As I’ve pointed out several times,
                              creating an additional representation of
                              the changes that is required but cannot be
                              trusted doesn’t help anyone.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">This is really, really
                              silly, and I wish people were more vocal
                              and active in finding a solution to it
                              that works for everyone.  And no, I don’t
                              want to discuss what tools or processes
                              should be used to produce redlines.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Each ballot should have
                              one and only one official representation
                              of the proposed changes, and no
                              alternative unofficial changes should be
                              required.  I’ve circulated several
                              proposals, but I really don’t care about
                              the details, as long as the problem is
                              solved.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">In this case, I think
                              I’m going to look and see if the Ballot
                              Text from 216 applies cleanly to the
                              latest Bylaws, and produce a redline based
                              on that.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">-Tim</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ryan
                                    Sleevi <<a
                                      href="mailto:sleevi@google.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">sleevi@google.com</a>>
                                    <br>
                                    <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13,
                                    2018 2:15 AM<br>
                                    <b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a
                                      href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>;
                                    <a
                                      href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
                                    <b>Cc:</b> CABFPub <<a
                                      href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
                                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Servercert-wg]
                                    Ballot FORUM-4 v2</p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Tim,</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I believe there
                                    had been a previous suggestion to
                                    provide this as a clearer redline,
                                    rather than an "Adopt Document X".
                                    Can you clarify that?</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">By presenting it
                                    as you have, it's going to create
                                    more work to even make sure that the
                                    formatting of the document -
                                    claiming to be a redline - actually
                                    matches to the last canonical
                                    version, and that the changes you've
                                    highlighted in red, are, well the
                                    changes to be made.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I hope you can
                                    understand why that's more
                                    difficult, because it requires
                                    wholesale comparison rather than
                                    taking the previous version and
                                    showing how it would be corrected.</p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 12,
                                    2018 at 9:20 PM Tim Hollebeek via
                                    Servercert-wg <<a
                                      href="mailto:servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a>>
                                    wrote:</p>
                                </div>
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                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Ballot
                                        FORUM-4 v2: Fix mistakes made
                                        during passage of Governance
                                        Reform Ballot 206</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Purpose of
                                        Ballot</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The
                                        Governance Reform ballot (Ballot
                                        206 under the old ballot
                                        numbering scheme) was extremely
                                        complicated and took roughly two
                                        years to draft. </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The changes
                                        to the Bylaws from Ballot 216
                                        were intended to be included in
                                        the Governance Reform ballot,
                                        but were accidentally not
                                        included.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The attached
                                        version of the Bylaws restores
                                        the important discussion period
                                        changes that were approved by
                                        the members but then
                                        accidentally overwritten.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The following
                                        motion has been proposed by Tim
                                        Hollebeek of DigiCert and
                                        endorsed by Wayne Thayer of
                                        Mozilla and Moudrick Dadashov of
                                        SSC.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">--- MOTION
                                        BEGINS ---</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">This ballot
                                        replaces the “Bylaws of the
                                        CA/Browser Forum” version 1.9
                                        with version 2.0 of those
                                        Bylaws, attached to this ballot.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">--- MOTION
                                        ENDS ---</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The procedure
                                        for approval of this ballot is
                                        as follows:</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Discussion (7
                                        days)</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Start Time:
                                        2018-09-12, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">End Time:
                                        2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Vote for
                                        approval (7 days)</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Start Time:
                                        2018-09-19, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">End Time:
                                        2018-09-26, 9:30 pm Eastern Time</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                                    Servercert-wg mailing list<br>
                                    <a
                                      href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a><br>
                                    <a
                                      href="http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a></p>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
                      font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </span></p>
                  <pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
                  <pre>Servercert-wg mailing list</pre>
                  <pre><a href="mailto:Servercert-wg@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Servercert-wg@cabforum.org</a></pre>
                  <pre><a href="http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a></pre>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                  </span></p>
                <pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
                <pre>Public mailing list</pre>
                <pre><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Public@cabforum.org</a></pre>
                <pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
                  font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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