<div dir="ltr"><div>So, to make sure we have a clearly defined question and goal, which ensures a productive use of our time (rather than ad-hoc discussions), is this a correct summary of the exact topic to discuss:</div><div><br></div><div>"Does Sony, which distributes Android TV with additional Sony software installed, produce a software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates, based on the information currently provided"</div><div><br></div><div>With possible outcomes being:</div><div>"Yes"</div><div>"No"<br>"Here are additional questions that may need to be answered before-hand"?</div><div><br></div><div>Similarly, one presumably repeats that process for all further definitions - such as CWG membership groups.</div><div><br></div><div>I can see there are a number of questions that would need to be answered:</div><div>- What CWGs would Sony be interested in applying for</div><div>- Where are details about the Software Product (since updates to those products are part of our Bylaws)</div><div>- Is the Software Product itself intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates?</div><div> - An example of how it could not be intended for use by the general public is a system that is intended to only connect to a single host or a limited set of hosts</div><div><br></div><div>If the discussion is focused on gathering further questions or additional information to gather, that can be a productive conversation to have.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:21 PM Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Summary based on quotes from my original email to the list:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Original Sony question</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Can you please describe the bylaw requirement of “produces a software
product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates and is a member of a CWG”? If we produce a hardware product which includes software which relies upon (public root) certificates, does that meet the definition
of “produces a software product”?”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dean Coclin response</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Perhaps you can help clarify by stating whether or not Sony makes the underlying
software that runs in the hardware device made by Sony?”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sony response</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Limiting the discussion to televisions (the question at-hand), they’re based on
Android TV then with Sony software on top. So, “does Sony make the software” is yes and no. But we *<b>do</b>* write the software that does the cryptographic signature validation.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bylaws provide as follows:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(a) All Forum members must *** meet at least one of the following criteria: ***<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(<u>3)
<b>Certificate Consumer</b>: The member organization produces a software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates</u> and is a member of a CWG [Chartered Working Group, such as the new Server Certificate
Working Group]<u>.</u><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Ryan Sleevi [mailto:<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>>; CABFPub <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [EXTERNAL]Re: Membership Application of Sony<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm having trouble finding a clear summary of the question from the message forwarded.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Could you helpfully re-state it?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It sounds like the question is "Can we join the Forum without joining a CWG" - but that may not be a correct understanding.
<u></u><u></u></p>
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