<div dir="ltr">Based on the information provided, it is not possible to answer that question.<div><br></div><div>The relevance of the CWG is to ensure efficient and productive use of Sony's time, and members time, by being able to provide a comprehensive set of questions that can attempt to answer the eligibility, rather than requiring multiple rounds of iteration and review. It is not essential to the question you posed, but is essential to a question of Sony performing a membership application, and thus seems useful to acknowledge and resolve while collecting questions.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 2:59 PM Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="m_-3950374864756137825WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I would phrase the question for discussion tomorrow in a more simple fashion:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Based on the information provided by Sony, does Sony “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">produce[] a software product
*** intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates”. <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">That’s the requirement for a new browser member in our Bylaws.
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t think the issue of which Chartered Working Group Sony would apply for is relevant to this narrow question. I assume it will be the Server Certificate Working Group, as that’s the
only CWG we have right now. We can see what any actual application from Sony says after we consider its threshold question tomorrow.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To Adam Goldberg at Sony</span></u></i></b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">:</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Ryan Sleevi has posed the following additional questions – if you have additional information to provide, please do it
<u>today</u> as early as possible so we can consider any additional information on our call tomorrow morning.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">1. What CWGs [Chartered Working Groups] would Sony be interested in applying for?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">2. Where are details about the Software Product (since updates to those products are part of our Bylaws)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">3. Is the Software Product itself intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates? An example of how it could not be intended
for use by the general public is a system that is intended to only connect to a single host or a limited set of hosts<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I think Ryan’s reference about updates in Question 2 is based on the following additional section of our Bylaws:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Bylaw 2.2 Ending Forum Membership
</span></b><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">***</span><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">(a) Browser: A Browser member's membership will automatically cease if any of the following become true:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">1. It stops providing updates for its membership-qualifying software product; or
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">2. Six months have elapsed since the last such published update.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Ryan Sleevi [mailto:<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>>; CABFPub <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Membership Application of Sony<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, to make sure we have a clearly defined question and goal, which ensures a productive use of our time (rather than ad-hoc discussions), is this a correct summary of the exact topic to discuss:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Does Sony, which distributes Android TV with additional Sony software installed, produce a software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates, based on the information currently provided"<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With possible outcomes being:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Yes"<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"No"<br>
"Here are additional questions that may need to be answered before-hand"?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Similarly, one presumably repeats that process for all further definitions - such as CWG membership groups.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can see there are a number of questions that would need to be answered:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- What CWGs would Sony be interested in applying for<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Where are details about the Software Product (since updates to those products are part of our Bylaws)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Is the Software Product itself intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> - An example of how it could not be intended for use by the general public is a system that is intended to only connect to a single host or a limited set of hosts<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the discussion is focused on gathering further questions or additional information to gather, that can be a productive conversation to have.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:21 PM Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Summary based on quotes from my original email to the list:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Original Sony question</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Can you please
describe the bylaw requirement of “produces a software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates and is a member of a CWG”? If we produce a hardware product which includes software which relies upon (public
root) certificates, does that meet the definition of “produces a software product”?”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dean Coclin response</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Perhaps you
can help clarify by stating whether or not Sony makes the underlying software that runs in the hardware device made by Sony?”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sony response</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">: “Limiting the discussion
to televisions (the question at-hand), they’re based on Android TV then with Sony software on top. So, “does Sony make the software” is yes and no. But we *<b>do</b>* write the software that does the cryptographic signature validation.”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bylaws provide as follows:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(a) All Forum members must *** meet at least one of the following criteria: ***</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(<u>3) <b>Certificate Consumer</b>: The member organization produces a software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general public for relying upon certificates</u> and is a member
of a CWG [Chartered Working Group, such as the new Server Certificate Working Group]<u>.</u></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Ryan Sleevi [mailto:<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>>; CABFPub <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [EXTERNAL]Re: Membership Application of Sony</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm having trouble finding a clear summary of the question from the message forwarded.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Could you helpfully re-state it?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It sounds like the question is "Can we join the Forum without joining a CWG" - but that may not be a correct understanding.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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