<div dir="ltr">Certainly not trying to fight :) I'm assuming I'm missing something, so just trying to make sure I understand the concerns to see how best to address them.<div><br></div><div>How I'm thinking a CA "would" do this, in a way that makes it clear to relying parties, is that 1.4.1 / 1.4.2 would dictate the acceptable/unacceptable uses, 4.9.1.1 would (in order to maintain consistency with the BRs) specifically enumerate each and every one of the items in the BRs, verbatim.</div><div><br></div><div>Then, a CA could add additional reasons for revocation (e.g. 4.9.1.1 (16) "The owner of the CA wakes up on the wrong side of the bed that morning"), while the method that the BRs require that they MUST have - that is, 4.9.1.1 (4), would consistently refer to the definitions in 1.4.1 / 1.4.2 for all CAs.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we're actually in quite good agreement that CAs should be able to dictate why they revoke, along with expecting subscribers be prepared for that, but similarly, we want to make sure that CAs enumerate all 14 methods listed in the BRs 4.9.1.1, and to be able to do that for 4.9.1.1 (4), we need to define what that means consistently :)</div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Adriano Santoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it" target="_blank">adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p><font face="Calibri">Well, §4.9 of the CPS is about certificate
        revocation, and here we are discussing about whether and when a
        CA reserves the right to revoke a "misused" certificate, whatever
        "misused" means (to a particular CA). So it seems to me that
        §4.9 - and particularly §4.9.1 (circumstances for revocation) -
        can be a suitable location in the CPS where to define "misuse".
        But I appreciate that §1.4 is also an appropriate place. At any
        rate, I am not going to fight over this.</font><br>
    </p><div><div class="h5">
    <br>
    <div class="m_-3658318345786821292moz-cite-prefix">Il 08/06/2018 14:51, Ryan Sleevi ha
      scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">I'm not sure - can you explain why you think
        putting it in 4.9 would be consistent with 3647?
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I think the goal is to have a consistent place that all
          Subscribers and Relying Parties can expect things. 3647
          provides for that in Section 1.4. I'm not sure why we'd want
          to permit and/or - that seems like it creates more work for
          everyone?</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Adriano
          Santoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it" target="_blank">adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.<wbr>it</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
              <p><font face="Calibri">More explicitly, with reference to
                  RFC 3647, I'd suggest that a description of what the
                  CA means by "misuse" (or an equivalent term or
                  expression) should be found in §1.4 and/or §4.9 of the
                  CA's CPS.</font><br>
              </p>
              <div>
                <div class="m_-3658318345786821292h5"> <br>
                  <div class="m_-3658318345786821292m_2117719529880221145moz-cite-prefix">Il
                    08/06/2018 13:52, Ryan Sleevi ha scritto:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">Could you expand a bit more?
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>One of the concerns raised by multiple
                        browsers, but particularly articulated by Wayne,
                        was that CAs are documenting things all over,
                        and so it's difficult for consumers to know
                        where it will be documented. Do you currently
                        document it, and in a different section?</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>It was an explicit goal of Ballot 217 to
                        ensure that CAs are following the 3647 format,
                        and as Moudrick highlighted, that's already got
                        a dedicated section for that purpose. If you did
                        want to place information in additional places,
                        that's certainly possible - but it means your
                        example 1.4.2 would say something like</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>"Certificates issued under this policy shall
                        not be used for hazardous environments requiring
                        fail-safe controls, including without
                        limitation, the design, construction,
                        maintenance or operation of nuclear facilities,
                        aircraft navigation or communication systems,
                        air traffic control, and life support or weapons
                        systems. Further, certificates issued under this
                        policy may not be used for the purposes defined
                        in Appendix A"</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Does that sound... reasonable?</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at
                        7:37 AM, Adriano Santoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it" target="_blank">adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.i<wbr>t</a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                            <p><font face="Calibri">I'd prefer not to
                                restrict the sections of the CA's CP/CPS
                                where the definition of "misuse" (or
                                "misused") is to be found:</font></p>
                            <p>4.9.1.1 (future)<br>
                              "4. The CA obtains evidence that the
                              Certificate was misused, as defined by the
                              CA's CP/CPS;"<br>
                            </p>
                            <span> <br>
                              <br>
                              <div class="m_-3658318345786821292m_2117719529880221145m_-1831669406125017777moz-cite-prefix">Il
                                08/06/2018 12:54, Ryan Sleevi ha
                                scritto:<br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                <div>4.9.1.1 (future)</div>
                                <div>"4. The CA obtains evidence that
                                  the Certificate was misused, as
                                  defined by Section 1.4.1 and 1.4.2 of
                                  the CA's CP/CPS;"</div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <br>
                            </span></div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>