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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I was trying to avoid issues we have had recently with redlines that don’t always faithfully reflect the ballot text, which is normative. I think you might be right and that the objection was to having to READ redlines, and not having to be able to WRITE redlines.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If you’re right, we currently require redlines, but they cannot be relied upon. This seems odd to me, but our bylaws have had worse oddities.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Tim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Wayne Thayer [mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com>; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <public@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Voting Begins: Ballot 221: Two-Factor Authentication and Password Improvements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Tim Hollebeek <<a href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>People fought pretty hard for the ability to post ballots without redlines; this isn’t the first by far. I actually opposed that and lost.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I looked at the last handful of ballots. All of them (224, 223, 220, 219, and 218) included redlines.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I strongly encourage attachment of redlines, and this is the first time I haven’t, unfortunately due to time constraints. I try to do it whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's more than encouraged - the bylaws require redlines.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I believe if you look at the definitions, a Draft Guideline Ballot is the ballot posted by the chair after voting ends as part of the IPR process. That’s my recollection.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The bylaws contain no definition of "Draft Guideline Ballot". Bylaws section 2.3 begins by stating "The following rules will apply to all ballots, including Draft Guideline Ballots...", so I think you are mistaken.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Tim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Kirk Hall [mailto:<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com" target="_blank">wthayer@mozilla.com</a>>; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>>; Tim Hollebeek <<a href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com" target="_blank">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Voting Begins: Ballot 221: Two-Factor Authentication and Password Improvements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bylaw 2.4(a) says the following: “***If the Draft Guideline Ballot is proposing a Final Maintenance Guideline, <u>such ballot will include a redline or comparison</u> showing the set of changes from the Final Guideline section(s) intended to become a Final Maintenance Guideline, and need not include a copy of the full set of guidelines. Such redline or comparison shall be made against the Final Guideline section(s) as they exist at the time a ballot is proposed, and need not take into consideration other ballots that may be proposed subsequently, except as provided in Section 2.4(j) below.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m inclined to agree with Wayne, and it’s certainly hard to evaluate the ballot language without pulling out a copy of the NetSec Requirements first to see the context and what was changed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Tim, Dimitris, and Neal – what do you think? Is the form of Ballot 221 compliant with the Bylaws? Do you want to ditch this ballot (we don’t have a quorum yet) and start again, including a red-line or comparison showing the changes from the current NetSec Requirements?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>