<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/></head><body style="font-family:Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">Dear Phillip,<br />
<br />
> I don’t understand the reasoning.<br />
> If a cert is bad, it is bad and we need to revoke it. Period, end of story.<br />
<br />
I afraid cases when it can affect clients. For example, reseller revoked certificate without permission of client. In this case, client do not have any new certificate and old one. May be they revoked bad certificates, but bulk revocation looks strange.<br />
Another case: Reseller was hacked and someone revoked all certificates of reseller. Limitations for resellers can protect end users.<br />
<br />
Resellers also should not save private keys of clients.<br />
<div>
<div>---<br />
Kind regards,</div>
</div>
Aleksei Ivanov<br />
<br />
01/03/2018 16:01 - Phillip wrote:
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">I don’t understand the reasoning.<br />
<br />
If a cert is bad, it is bad and we need to revoke it. Period, end of story.<br />
<br />
This looks like punishing resellers for behavior we want to encourage.<br />
<br />
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><strong>From:</strong> Public [mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>LeaderTelecom B.V. via Public<br />
<strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, March 1, 2018 8:06 AM<br />
<strong>To:</strong> jeremy.rowley@digicert.com; public@cabforum.org<br />
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [cabfpub] [Ticket#2018022801003595] How do you handle mass revocation requests?</div>
</div>
<br />
<span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">It will be great to have daily / monthly limit for revocation for each reseller. For example, daily limit 1% from all active certificates (minimum 10 pcs). Monthly limit can be 20% from all active certificates of partner (minimum 100 pcs, maximum: 1000 pcs.).<br />
<br />
</span>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">---</span></div>
</div>
<span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">Kind regards,<br />
Aleksei Ivanov<br />
<br />
<br />
28/02/2018 22:34 - Jeremy Rowley via Public wrote: </span>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">Here’s 10 CSRs that people can correlate with the CT logs. I’ll create another 100 or so to dispel any doubt.<br />
<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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-----END CERTIFICATE REQUEST-----<br />
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<strong><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif">From:</span></strong> Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>><br />
<strong><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Wednesday, February 28, 2018 2:01 PM<br />
<strong><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif">To:</span></strong> Geoff Keating <<a href="mailto:geoffk@apple.com" target="_blank">geoffk@apple.com</a>><br />
<strong><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif">Cc:</span></strong> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>>; Jeremy Rowley <<a href="mailto:jeremy.rowley@digicert.com" target="_blank">jeremy.rowley@digicert.com</a>><br />
<strong><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [cabfpub] How do you handle mass revocation requests?<br />
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<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:46 PM, Geoff Keating <<a href="mailto:geoffk@apple.com" target="_blank">geoffk@apple.com</a>> wrote: </span>
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<span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">> On 28 Feb 2018, at 11:08 am, Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>> wrote:<br />
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><br />
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:59 PM, Geoff Keating via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<br />
>> This raises a question about the MDSP policy and CAB Forum requirements. Who is the subscriber in the reseller relation? We believe this to be the key holder. However, the language is unclear.<br />
><br />
> ‘Subscriber’ is a defined term in the BRs:<br />
> Subscriber: A natural person or Legal Entity to whom a Certificate is issued and who is legally bound by a Subscriber Agreement or Terms of Use.<br />
><br />
> That’s pretty clear and can’t be stretched to cover a reseller—a reseller won’t be able to comply with a Subscriber Agreement.<br />
><br />
> At the risk of stretching things, I want to point out that taking this interpretation requires determining whether or not the Reseller is acting as an Applicant Representative during the process.<br />
><br />
> In this case, is the Reseller legally binding the "user" (for lack of better word) to a Subscriber Agreement? If so, how does the CA determine that the Reseller is an authorized Applicant Representative, and thus entitled to legally bind the "user" to the Subscriber Agreement?<br />
<br />
There are several ways this could be done. However there is no question about the result, because that’s covered by 4.1.2:<br />
Prior to the issuance of a Certificate, the CA SHALL obtain the following documentation from the Applicant:<br />
<br />
• A certificate request, which may be electronic; and<br />
<br />
• An executed Subscriber Agreement or Terms of Use, which may be electronic<br />
<br />
So after a CA issues the certificate, it’s easy to find out who the Subscriber was (for some definition of ‘who’): you get the CA’s copy of the Subscriber Agreement and look for the bit where it says “This is an agreement between ______ and <the CA>.” and see what was written in the blank. (and yes, it does have to be between the Subscriber and the CA, not between the Subscriber and anyone else, see the definition of ’Subscriber Agreement’.)</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">Right, we're in violent agreement here :)</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">In addition under 9.6.1 item 6, the CA ‘represents and warrants’ that “the Subscriber and CA are parties to a legally valid and enforceable Subscriber Agreement that satisfies these Requirements…” and under 9.6.3, "The CA SHALL implement a process to ensure that each Subscriber Agreement or Terms of Use is legally enforceable against the Applicant."</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">Here's where I'm saying I've seen fuzziness, with respect to the Reseller being nominated as an Applicant Representative (effectively), thus binding the Agreement between the user (who is now the Subscriber) and <the CA>. We've left under-specified how the Applicant Representative is authorized (under than 'express authority') - other than the 3.2.5 case.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:9.0pt">To be clear: I don't think this is a defensible position, but I'm saying that based on how some of the issuance practices (or, more aptly, based on complaints we've heard re: various API integrations, including those of former CAs no longer members), this does seem an interpretation that some have advanced. The CA has defined a process (the Applicant Representative agreed), but it's not a very ... good... process. The CA would be at fault, but this is where the messiness is.</span></div>
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