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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My thinking was that the phrase we choose would itself indicate that corrections could only be made if they didn’t present any substantive issues. How would
you phrase that concept so it was clear to all?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Ryan Sleevi [mailto:sleevi@google.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 6, 2017 12:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com>; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <public@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com>; Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Ballot XXX: Update Discussion Period Process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Do you have a more concrete proposal for how that would look that addresses the issues that have been repeatedly raised over the years with such proposals?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As we've seen in past conversations, including Ballot 190, both typographical and numbering corrections have had profound normative impact. Discussions about structures organized such as "1 and 2 and 3" (within lists) being unclear as to
whether they're "(1 and 2) or 3" or "1 and (2 or 3)"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">We will also endorse.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Gerv, do you want to allow “minor typographical and numbering corrections” without restarting the 7 day discussion period?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Public [mailto:<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Hollebeek via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gervase Markham <<a href="mailto:gerv@mozilla.org" target="_blank">gerv@mozilla.org</a>>; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Ballot XXX: Update Discussion Period Process<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’ll endorse this one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I still have some concerns about forcing a 7 day wait might cause problems if a new version of the ballot simply has a spelling correction or minor wording clarification. We can
see if it’s actually a problem in practice if I’m the only one who feels that way.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">But the most important thing is removing the automatic start of voting when we may or may not be ready. And I think that would be a great improvement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Tim
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="m_-4504692711130608117__MailEndCompose"> </a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Public [<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gervase Markham via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CABFPub <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cabfpub] Ballot XXX: Update Discussion Period Process<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line867">[Here's a repost of my proposed text to fix the issue that Tim has helpfully recently re-raised.]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line867"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ballot XXX: Update Discussion Period Process</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">Purpose of Ballot: The current voting procedures specify a "period of discussion", the duration of which is fixed before the ballot process begins. This ballot updates that to instead have the period of discussion be
more flexible, to avoid it expiring while discussion is ongoing and thereby voting on a sub-optimal ballot.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">The following motion has been proposed by Gervase Markham of Mozilla and endorsed by XXX of XXX and XXX of XXX:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line867"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-- MOTION BEGINS --</span></strong>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">This ballot modifies the CAB Forum Bylaws.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">In Section 2.3(c), replace the text:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"The discussion period then shall take place for at least seven but no more than 14 calendar days before votes are cast. The proposer of the ballot will designate the length of the discussion period, and each ballot shall
clearly state the start and end dates and times (including time zone) for both the discussion period and the voting period."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">with:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"The discussion period then shall take place for at least seven calendar days before votes are cast. At any time, a new version of the ballot (marked with a distinguishing version number) may be posted by the proposer
in the same manner as the original. Once no new version of the ballot has been posted for seven calendar days, the proposer may end the discussion period and start the voting period by reposting the final version of the ballot and clearly indicating that voting
is to begin, along with the start and end dates and times (including time zone) for the voting period. The ballot automatically fails if 21 calendar days elapse since the proposer last posted a version of the ballot and the voting period has not been started."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">Similarly, in Section 2.4(b), replace the text:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"As described in Section 2.3(c), there will be a discussion period of at least seven but no more than 14 calendar days before votes are cast on a Draft Guideline Ballot, with the start and end dates of such discussion
period clearly specified in the ballot."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">with:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"As described in Section 2.3(c), there will be a discussion period of at least seven days before votes are cast on a Draft Guideline Ballot, with the start date of such discussion period clearly specified in the ballot.
The discussion period shall end and the voting period shall commence also according to the procedure specified in Section 2.3(c)."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">In Section 2.3(d) of the CAB Forum Bylaws, replace the text:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"Upon completion of the discussion period, Members shall have"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">with:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"Upon commencement of the voting period, Members shall have"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">Similarly, in Section 2.4(c), replace the text:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"As described in Section 2.3(d), upon completion of such discussion period, Members shall have"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">with:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">"As described in Section 2.3(d), upon commencement of the voting period, Members shall have"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line867"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-- MOTION ENDS --</span></strong>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m-4504692711130608117line874">The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">Start time (22:00 UTC) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">End time (22:00 UTC) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">Discussion (7 to 14 days) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">XXX <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">XXX <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">Vote for approval (7 days) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">XXX <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">XXX <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m-4504692711130608117line862">Votes must be cast by posting an on-list reply to this thread on the Public list. A vote in favor of the motion must indicate a clear 'yes' in the response. A vote against must indicate a clear 'no' in the response. A
vote to abstain must indicate a clear 'abstain' in the response. Unclear responses will not be counted. The latest vote received from any representative of a voting member before the close of the voting period will be counted. Voting members are listed here:
<tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://cabforum.org/members/" target="_blank">https://cabforum.org/members/</a></span></tt>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">In order for the motion to be adopted, two thirds or more of the votes cast by members in the CA category and greater than 50% of the votes cast by members in the browser category
must be in favor. Quorum is shown on CA/Browser Forum wiki. Under Bylaw 2.2(g), at least the required quorum number must participate in the ballot for the ballot to be valid, either by voting in favor, voting against, or abstaining.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Public mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org">Public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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