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    <font face="Cambria">Actually I was not correct what RPs and
      Subscribers get is certificates that they must accept.<br>
      <br>
      If they do, they are bound to CA's policy (CP/CPS) explicitly
      indicated in the certificate. Maybe the binding chain should look
      like this:<br>
      <br>
    </font><font face="Cambria"><font class="" face="Cambria">BR/EVG
        --> Webtrust/ETSI schemes --> <b class="">Root Store
          schemes</b> --> Audit report --> CP/CPS -->
        RPA/Subscriber Agreement</font> --> Subscriber Certificate
      --> RP/Subscriber<br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      M.D.<br>
    </font><br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/13/2017 1:21 AM, Virginia
      Fournier wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:51BB2DE8-4E49-43AA-8DF0-6F632E1AC6E6@apple.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div class="">MD,</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      If you can get the Relying Parties and Subscribers to sign the
      agreement with the limitations of liability and indemnification in
      it, then they are bound.  But the rest does not require them to
      agree to those provisions.  It’s entirely up to the Relying
      Parties and Subscribers to decide whether they accept those
      provisions or not.
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">If you have any additional questions, you should
        discuss with your counsel.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Given that the limitations are not required, is
        there a need to proceed with this ballot?<br class="">
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                  </span></span></div>
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                </span></div>
              <div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
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                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
                line-height: normal;">
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Best
                  regards,</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 17px;"
                  class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Virginia
                  Fournier</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Senior
                  Standards Counsel</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span
                    style="line-height: normal; font-family: 'Myriad Set
                    Pro'; color: rgb(94, 94, 94);
                    -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(94, 94, 94);"
                    class=""></span> Apple Inc.</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">☏
                  669-227-9595</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
                  normal; color: rgb(71, 135, 255);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255);
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span
                    style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                    -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">✉︎ <a
                      href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                        style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135,
                        255);" class="">vmf@apple.com</span></a></span></div>
              </div>
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                line-height: normal;">
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                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          </div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div>
          <div class="">On Oct 12, 2017, at 3:11 PM, Moudrick M.
            Dadashov <<a href="mailto:md@ssc.lt" class=""
              moz-do-not-send="true">md@ssc.lt</a>> wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=utf-8" class="">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> <font
                class="" face="Cambria">How about:<br class="">
                <br class="">
                BR/EVG --> Webtrust/ETSI schemes --> <b class="">Root
                  Store schemes</b> --> Audit report --> CP/CPS
                --> Binding RPA/Subscriber Agreement</font><br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              Thanks,<br class="">
              M.D<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/13/2017 12:58 AM, Ryan
                Sleevi via Public wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWva6yL5cPCJ+j1G8igj+4HaN=VHo6YLm-LbOYx1JJuiDhg@mail.gmail.com"
                class="">
                <div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at
                      5:38 PM, Virginia Fournier via Public <span
                        dir="ltr" class=""><<a
                          href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="">public@cabforum.org</a>></span>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
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                              class="">
                              <div style="letter-spacing: normal;
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                                  class=""><span class=""><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">Message:
                                      3</span><br style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">
                                    <span style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017
                                      00:18:33 +0300</span><span
                                      class=""><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                      <span style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">From: "Moudrick M.
                                        Dadashov" <</span><a
                                        href="mailto:md@ssc.lt"
                                        style="font-size:14px"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true" class="">md@ssc.lt</a><span
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                    </span><span style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">To: Virginia Fournier via
                                      Public <</span><a
                                      href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
                                      style="font-size:14px"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true" class="">public@cabforum.org</a><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                    <span style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">Subject: Re: [cabfpub]
                                      Limitation of Liability and
                                      Indemnification</span><br
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                    <span style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">Message-ID: <</span><a
href="mailto:3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt"
                                      style="font-size:14px"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true" class="">3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-<wbr
                                        class="">1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt</a><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                    <span style="font-size:14px"
                                      class="">Content-Type: text/plain;
                                      charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"</span><span
                                      class=""><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                      <br style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">
                                      <span style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">Could you please
                                        explain why you think BR and EV
                                        Requirements are only </span><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                      <span style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">binding on members of
                                        the Forum?</span><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                      <br style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">
                                      <span style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">Thanks,</span><br
                                        style="font-size:14px" class="">
                                      <span style="font-size:14px"
                                        class="">M.D.</span></span></span></div>
                                <div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                                  class=""><span class=""><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class=""><br
                                        class="">
                                    </span></span></div>
                                <div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                                  class=""><span class=""><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">Hi
                                      M.D.</span></span></div>
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                                  Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
                                  class=""><span class=""><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class=""><br
                                        class="">
                                    </span></span></div>
                                <div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                                  class=""><span class=""><span
                                      style="font-size:14px" class="">I
                                      can see why this would be hard to
                                      understand.</span></span></div>
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                                  class=""><span class=""><br class="">
                                  </span></div>
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                                  class=""><span class="">Entities who
                                    are not members of the Forum have
                                    nothing that would legally bind them
                                    to abide by those limitations.  They
                                    aren’t members, so they aren’t bound
                                    by any of the Forum documents -
                                    Bylaws, Baseline Requirements, etc. 
                                    They don’t have a written agreement
                                    with the Forum to abide by certain
                                    requirements, so they’re not bound
                                    that way either.  </span></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">Members of the Forum also aren't
                        bound to abide by the Baseline Requirements.</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">Given this, does that resolve your
                        concern?</div>
                      <div class=""> </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
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                              word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"
                              class="">
                              <div style="letter-spacing: normal;
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                                text-transform: none; white-space:
                                normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap:
                                break-word;" class="">
                                <div style="font-style: normal;
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                                  none; white-space: normal;
                                  word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
                                  Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
                                  class=""><span class="">The best way
                                    to make the limitations binding on
                                    the Subscribers, Relying Parties,
                                    etc. would be for the CAs to enter
                                    into agreements with those parties,
                                    and try to get them to agree to the
                                    limitations.  But, again, they could
                                    just ignore the limitations.</span></div>
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                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">Perhaps phrased differently - the
                        BRs describe what such agreements MUST and
                        SHOULD contain. This is allowing a further
                        modification (a MAY) to such agreements. The
                        enforcement and requirement that CAs agreements
                        do or do not contain such provisions is done by
                        the root stores that individual CAs partner with
                        - not by the Forum.</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">No member of the Forum is bound to
                        abide by the Baseline Requirements by the Forum.
                        The only document any member is bound to is to
                        the IPR policy (as per the mutual contracts
                        signed). </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
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                <br class="">
                <pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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