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<font face="Cambria">Actually I was not correct what RPs and
Subscribers get is certificates that they must accept.<br>
<br>
If they do, they are bound to CA's policy (CP/CPS) explicitly
indicated in the certificate. Maybe the binding chain should look
like this:<br>
<br>
</font><font face="Cambria"><font class="" face="Cambria">BR/EVG
--> Webtrust/ETSI schemes --> <b class="">Root Store
schemes</b> --> Audit report --> CP/CPS -->
RPA/Subscriber Agreement</font> --> Subscriber Certificate
--> RP/Subscriber<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
M.D.<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/13/2017 1:21 AM, Virginia
Fournier wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:51BB2DE8-4E49-43AA-8DF0-6F632E1AC6E6@apple.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">MD,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
If you can get the Relying Parties and Subscribers to sign the
agreement with the limitations of liability and indemnification in
it, then they are bound. But the rest does not require them to
agree to those provisions. It’s entirely up to the Relying
Parties and Subscribers to decide whether they accept those
provisions or not.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you have any additional questions, you should
discuss with your counsel.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Given that the limitations are not required, is
there a need to proceed with this ballot?<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2;
widows: 2;"><span style="font-family: Arial; orphans:
auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2;
widows: 2;"><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
line-height: normal;">
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Best
regards,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 17px;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Virginia
Fournier</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Senior
Standards Counsel</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span
style="line-height: normal; font-family: 'Myriad Set
Pro'; color: rgb(94, 94, 94);
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(94, 94, 94);"
class=""></span> Apple Inc.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">☏
669-227-9595</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height:
normal; color: rgb(71, 135, 255);
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">✉︎ <a
href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135,
255);" class="">vmf@apple.com</span></a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
line-height: normal;">
<div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<div class="">On Oct 12, 2017, at 3:11 PM, Moudrick M.
Dadashov <<a href="mailto:md@ssc.lt" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">md@ssc.lt</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> <font
class="" face="Cambria">How about:<br class="">
<br class="">
BR/EVG --> Webtrust/ETSI schemes --> <b class="">Root
Store schemes</b> --> Audit report --> CP/CPS
--> Binding RPA/Subscriber Agreement</font><br
class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
M.D<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/13/2017 12:58 AM, Ryan
Sleevi via Public wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACvaWva6yL5cPCJ+j1G8igj+4HaN=VHo6YLm-LbOYx1JJuiDhg@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at
5:38 PM, Virginia Fournier via Public <span
dir="ltr" class=""><<a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="">public@cabforum.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"
class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word;" class="">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">Message:
3</span><br style="font-size:14px"
class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017
00:18:33 +0300</span><span
class=""><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">From: "Moudrick M.
Dadashov" <</span><a
href="mailto:md@ssc.lt"
style="font-size:14px"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">md@ssc.lt</a><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:14px"
class="">To: Virginia Fournier via
Public <</span><a
href="mailto:public@cabforum.org"
style="font-size:14px"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">public@cabforum.org</a><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Subject: Re: [cabfpub]
Limitation of Liability and
Indemnification</span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Message-ID: <</span><a
href="mailto:3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt"
style="font-size:14px"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-<wbr
class="">1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt</a><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">></span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"</span><span
class=""><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<br style="font-size:14px"
class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Could you please
explain why you think BR and EV
Requirements are only </span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">binding on members of
the Forum?</span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<br style="font-size:14px"
class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">Thanks,</span><br
style="font-size:14px" class="">
<span style="font-size:14px"
class="">M.D.</span></span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><span
style="font-size:14px" class=""><br
class="">
</span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">Hi
M.D.</span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><span
style="font-size:14px" class=""><br
class="">
</span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><span
style="font-size:14px" class="">I
can see why this would be hard to
understand.</span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class="">Entities who
are not members of the Forum have
nothing that would legally bind them
to abide by those limitations. They
aren’t members, so they aren’t bound
by any of the Forum documents -
Bylaws, Baseline Requirements, etc.
They don’t have a written agreement
with the Forum to abide by certain
requirements, so they’re not bound
that way either. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Members of the Forum also aren't
bound to abide by the Baseline Requirements.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Given this, does that resolve your
concern?</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"
class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word;" class="">
<div style="font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;"
class=""><span class="">The best way
to make the limitations binding on
the Subscribers, Relying Parties,
etc. would be for the CAs to enter
into agreements with those parties,
and try to get them to agree to the
limitations. But, again, they could
just ignore the limitations.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Perhaps phrased differently - the
BRs describe what such agreements MUST and
SHOULD contain. This is allowing a further
modification (a MAY) to such agreements. The
enforcement and requirement that CAs agreements
do or do not contain such provisions is done by
the root stores that individual CAs partner with
- not by the Forum.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">No member of the Forum is bound to
abide by the Baseline Requirements by the Forum.
The only document any member is bound to is to
the IPR policy (as per the mutual contracts
signed). </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
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