<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Message: 3</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 00:18:33 +0300</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">From: "Moudrick M. Dadashov" <</span><a href="mailto:md@ssc.lt" style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">md@ssc.lt</a><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">></span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">To: Virginia Fournier via Public <</span><a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">public@cabforum.org</a><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">></span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Limitation of Liability and Indemnification</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Message-ID: <</span><a href="mailto:3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt" style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">3b9e4544-5b18-7535-c712-1cf544d7d8c5@ssc.lt</a><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">></span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Could you please explain why you think BR and EV Requirements are only </span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">binding on members of the Forum?</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Thanks,</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">M.D.</span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Hi M.D.</span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">I can see why this would be hard to understand.</span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">Entities who are not members of the Forum have nothing that would legally bind them to abide by those limitations. They aren’t members, so they aren’t bound by any of the Forum documents - Bylaws, Baseline Requirements, etc. They don’t have a written agreement with the Forum to abide by certain requirements, so they’re not bound that way either. </span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">The best way to make the limitations binding on the Subscribers, Relying Parties, etc. would be for the CAs to enter into agreements with those parties, and try to get them to agree to the limitations. But, again, they could just ignore the limitations.</span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">As an example, let’s say you and I make an agreement that you will sell a car to my friend Bob for $5,000. We sign the agreement and you’re ready to deliver the car to Bob. You get to Bob’s house, and he wants the car for $2,000. You say that you agreed with me to sell it for $5,000. Bob says tough turnips, he wasn’t part of that agreement, it’s his money, and he won’t pay more than $2,000. You would have no choice but to sell Bob the car for $2,000 or find a new buyer. The agreement that you and I made for $5,000 isn’t binding on Bob, because he wasn’t part of the agreement. Does that make sense?</span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">Virginia <br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">On 10/13/2017 12:08 AM, Virginia Fournier via Public wrote:</span><br style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 14px; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class="">Hi all,<br class=""><br class="">I want to weigh in on this from a legal perspective.<br class=""><br class="">The limitations on liabilities and indemnification provisions included in the Baseline Requirements and the EV Requirements are only binding on members of the Forum. In other words, these limitations are not binding on parties such as Subscribers and Relying Parties, and they do not have to accept the stated amounts.<br class=""><br class="">So, CAs can try to obtain the limitations you?ve enumerated below, but they do not have to be accepted. For example, a Subscriber could demand a unlimited liability, and the CA would have to decide how to proceed.<br class=""><br class="">Also, what is ?legally recognizable and provable claims? intended to cover, or exclude?<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Best regards,<br class=""><br class="">Virginia Fournier<br class="">Senior Standards Counsel<br class="">? Apple Inc.<br class="">? 669-227-9595<br class="">?? <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class="">vmf@apple.com</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Best regards,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 17px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Virginia Fournier</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Senior Standards Counsel</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span style="line-height: normal; font-family: 'Myriad Set Pro'; color: rgb(94, 94, 94); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(94, 94, 94);" class=""></span> Apple Inc.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">☏ 669-227-9595</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(71, 135, 255); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">✉︎ <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255);" class="">vmf@apple.com</span></a></span></div></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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