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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We’ve already seen spats about “demeaning” and “inappropriate” so I think the Forum does need to address the scope of that particular issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> vfournier@apple.com [mailto:vfournier@apple.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 1, 2017 7:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.rowley@digicert.com><br><b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <public@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] Informal discussion of Code of Conduct Ballot<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jeremy,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think the words used are pretty clear, and they are used in other SDO Codes of Conduct without any confusion, problem or issue. If you’d like to propose <b><u>specific words</u></b> that you’d suggest we use instead, we’d be happy to consider them and <b><u>determine if they are any more clear</u></b>.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We should keep in mind that these are common sense, plain English terms. It is troubling that people are picking at words like “demeaning” and “inappropriate.” Do Forum members need to reserve the right to engage in certain types of demeaning and inappropriate conduct? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It’s not about stifling conversation. It’s about treating fellow Forum members with professionalism and respect. I don’t understand why there is resistance to that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Virginia Fournier<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Senior Standards Counsel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Myriad Set Pro",serif;color:#5E5E5E'></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> Apple Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;color:black'>☏</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> 669-227-9595<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;color:black'>✉︎</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com">vmf@apple.com</a></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#4787FF'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 1, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Jeremy Rowley <<a href="mailto:jeremy.rowley@digicert.com">jeremy.rowley@digicert.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Suggestions:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>(b) Refrain from conduct __within the Forum__ such as: </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Directly insulting or demeaning another person<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[JR] This seems vague. Some people take things as demeaning when they are not meant to be demeaning. I think this could be used to stifle conversation. We’ve had accusations that conduct has been insulting/demeaning on the forum. Would you say it’s risen to that level? I support the principle, but would like clarity so we don’t get end up mixing persons with ideas eventually.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>Touching another person in a physically inappropriate way. <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>Deliberately intimidating, stalking or following (online or in person) another person.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[JR] Following online? Like on twitter?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'>Inappropriately disrupting official Forum events, including meetings, talks, and presentations.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[JR] Inappropriately is too vague. Are we trying to change a specific behavior at the CAB Forum? Could we clarify what this means?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'>Spamming, trolling, flaming, baiting, and other attention-stealing behavior.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[JR] Baiting/flaming are too similar to criticism of the idea. Can we add clarity?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>