<div dir="ltr">As the name implies, it would be geared towards the more technical participants, to simplify workflow for the non-technical participants.<div><br></div><div>For example, what in your mind is the current process that someone who wants to "create a new version of the document" and "amend documents to the website", and how long do you believe that currently takes? Similarly, if everyone is pitching in, rather than currently relying on a "Trusted Third Party" (... Ben), how do you propose we make sure mistakes aren't made along the way?</div><div><br></div><div>The answers for both those questions are reasonably complex, at present - even for the technically savvy (at least at first). It involves either proprietary software (Office + Acrobat, if going the ".doc file is the master"), with no transparency ("How do I make sure I have the current version of the doc) - as some drafts work - or it requires installing a variety of free-and-open-source software on a POSIX machine (the GitHub approach)</div><div><br></div><div>The hackathon would seek to implement what we've discussed at the past several F2F, but haven't materialized in the interim - things like guidance on how to reflect drafts in GitHub, integration such that GitHub automatically produces PDFs, and working to resolve any concerns or issues that prevent that automation. </div><div><br></div><div>One thing we've heard reiterated time and time again - from Baden, to Scottsdale, to Seattle - is that "Ben as a Service" isn't a system that scales. I appreciate you calling attention to the fact that all members can help out - but I'm suggesting your proposal, at present, is impractical and unworkable. A hackathon among the technically minded folks would seek to simplify that as much as possible (automation), and collaboratively develop documentation and guidance so that it can hopefully be easily understood and followed by the non-technically minded folks. Such an outcome would, hopefully, allow Ben a bit more freedom to rest and relax :)<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Kirk Hall <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I don’t fully understand – what would the “hackathon” produce?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Ryan Sleevi [mailto:<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:30 PM<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" target="_blank">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a><wbr>></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 183 was approved<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kirk,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I wholly support the ability to move the Forum to a mode where load is not disproportionately placed on a few members' time, but it does seem to me that it's not as simple as you propose.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example, in past activities of the Forum, it involved<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1) Having a copy of the correct version of Microsoft Office as what the 'true' document used<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) Having a copy of Adobe Acrobat (and not some "print to PDF product") to appropriate generate<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">However, the Forum has previously accepted that "the GitHub versions are the masters", vis-a-vis <a href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/tree/master/docs" target="_blank">https://github.com/<wbr>cabforum/documents/tree/<wbr>master/docs</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">While this easily allows submitting "Pull Requests" to the Bylaws, and it thankfully has an automated script to produce the PDF version, that doesn't include the ability to seamlessly edit the website. Plus, we should strive to ensure that
the updates to the Website truly reflect what's in the documents and intent.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Since it sounds like you're wholly on board with democraticizing the maintenance, a view I and others have supported, perhaps some members might be interested in a 'hackathon' on the Monday prior to our next F2F. We could use such a hackathon
among the more technically minded members to improve the tooling and automation so that any changes to the documents will necessarily result in a PDF being produced that's ready. We could also work through to arrange documentation for best practices, so that
perhaps there may be an opportunity that during the F2F, we can report back with simple guidance and training on that process.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would be curious if that's something that some members might be interested in - again, on the Monday, March 20. If we can get some rough interest, we can then go about securing a venue for that activity.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ben, that’s nice of you. Actually, in the past all members, not just the Chair and Vice Chair, have
pitched in and volunteered their help on administrative tasks like amending documents on the website, so in the future whoever wants to take first crack on creating a new version of a document – your assistance will be appreciated by all.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Public [mailto:<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public-bounces@<wbr>cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Wilson via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 9, 2017 1:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ben Wilson <<a href="mailto:ben.wilson@digicert.com" target="_blank">ben.wilson@digicert.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 183 was approved</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-2842653093077164272_m_4290391499703402950__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My apologies, I think Kirk asked me to prepare an updated version.
I’ll post one today.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:2.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0174c3">Ben Wilson, JD, CISA, CISSP</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:2.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#686869">VP Compliance</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:2.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#686869"><a href="tel:(801)%20701-9678" target="_blank">+1 801 701 9678</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="133" height="29" id="m_-2842653093077164272m_4290391499703402950Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D28324.F4F51750"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Public [<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">mailto:public-bounces@<wbr>cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan Sleevi via Public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 9, 2017 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] Ballot 183 was approved</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Kirk Hall via Public <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" target="_blank">public@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ballot 183 was
<b><u>approved</u></b> by a vote of 17 yes (100%), 0 no, 0 abstain by CAs, and 2 yes (100%), 0 no, 0 abstain by browsers. The quorum figure was 8 votes total, so quorum was achieved.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u>CA yes votes</u>: Amazon, ANF Autoridad de Certificacion, Buypass AS, Chunghwa Telecom, Cisco, Comodo, DigiCert, Disig a.s., Entrust Datacard, GlobalSign, GoDaddy, HARICA, Izenpe
S.A., SwissSign AG, Symantec, Trustwave, and TurkTrust, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Browser yes votes</u>: Apple, Mozilla<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We will soon publish and updated version of the Bylaws reflecting the changes from Ballot 183. Members can begin filing new Ballots in compliance with these new procedures – we
will need to modify the verbiage at the end of a ballot as a result. If you have a ballot that is ready, please consult with Ben, Peter, or me as to the verbiage to add at the end of the ballot.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good to have this done! Thanks to all.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Kirk</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kirk,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It's been nine days since this Ballot was approved, but a new version of the Bylaws has not yet been published at <a href="https://cabforum.org/bylaws/" target="_blank">https://cabforum.org/<wbr>bylaws/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you indicate when you expect to do so?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Public mailing list<br>
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<a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public" target="_blank">https://cabforum.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/public</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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